Old Baldy, where do you get your Phenytoin?
- Thread starter CCS
- Start date
http://www.unitedpharmacies.com/custome ... =phenytoin
If i get the 100mg tabs, and add 6 of them to a minoxidil bottle to make 1%, that is $1 per month extra. Not bad. I guess I could just pipet off the top to avoid the filler.
I still want to see a little proof that the stuff is nearly as strong as minoxidil.
If i get the 100mg tabs, and add 6 of them to a minoxidil bottle to make 1%, that is $1 per month extra. Not bad. I guess I could just pipet off the top to avoid the filler.
I still want to see a little proof that the stuff is nearly as strong as minoxidil.
http://www.answers.com/topic/phenytoin?cat=health
alopecia and excess hair are two of the side effects. So is acne. The face is the most common spot where the hairs grow.
spironolactone reduces face hair. I wonder if phenytoin has any androgenic properties and helps body hair, not head hair. Unless I see more convincing evidence, I think I'll stay away from it.
alopecia and excess hair are two of the side effects. So is acne. The face is the most common spot where the hairs grow.
spironolactone reduces face hair. I wonder if phenytoin has any androgenic properties and helps body hair, not head hair. Unless I see more convincing evidence, I think I'll stay away from it.
Bryan said:
Were his tests on human scalp hair, or on animal hair? I'm concerned about the acne side effect, and the alopecia side effect, and so am not convinced by the facial hair side effects. What tests did Dr Proctor do? How strong is phenytoin compared to minoxidil?
and if it is androgenic, that would make it stronger at growing face and body hair.
Does Dr Proctor believe his topicals stop the balding process, or just give a minoxidil offset? I thought arginine and anti-oxidants reduce free radicals and stimulate NO production, which is the natural minoxidil. I know he uses spironolactone, but you say spironolactone is maybe half as strong as Finasteride.
I don't know how dr proctor could know if phenytoin or other drugs have a growth offset, or slow the balding process, unless he did 1 year studies at least. Propecia had 5 year studies.
Has anyone tested Proctor's Proxiphen to see if it actually contains both spironolactone and minoxidil in the same solution? Is he peer reviewed?
Does Dr Proctor believe his topicals stop the balding process, or just give a minoxidil offset? I thought arginine and anti-oxidants reduce free radicals and stimulate NO production, which is the natural minoxidil. I know he uses spironolactone, but you say spironolactone is maybe half as strong as Finasteride.
I don't know how dr proctor could know if phenytoin or other drugs have a growth offset, or slow the balding process, unless he did 1 year studies at least. Propecia had 5 year studies.
Has anyone tested Proctor's Proxiphen to see if it actually contains both spironolactone and minoxidil in the same solution? Is he peer reviewed?
- Reaction score
- 42
collegechemistrystudent said:
I'm talking about his clinical experience with phenytoin (and Proxiphen in general).
collegechemistrystudent said:
He's said in the past on alt.baldspot that phenytoin is similar to minoxidil in its hairgrowth stimulating effect.
- Reaction score
- 42
collegechemistrystudent said:
I would imagine he really thinks they stop the balding process, but I'd like to hear him answer that question, himself.
collegechemistrystudent said:
I specifically said that in reference to RU58841. I said that the maximum effect of spironolactone on hamster flank organs is about half the maximum effect of RU58841 on hamster flank organs.
collegechemistrystudent said:
Good point!
collegechemistrystudent said:
He says it does, and he also says that he has his own method of stabilizing them together, which he used to claim that he might actually patent. Frankly, I have no reason to doubt his word.
collegechemistrystudent said:
Nope. Are you kidding?
so no other scientists check up on him. no studies. Just his word. And Prox-N has a pH of 2.2.
The known side effects of phenytoin are excess hair, alopecia, and acne. I wonder if minoxidil has any reported side effects that would counter indecate male pattern baldness.
When I read his web site, he seemed smart and knowledgeable.
The known side effects of phenytoin are excess hair, alopecia, and acne. I wonder if minoxidil has any reported side effects that would counter indecate male pattern baldness.
When I read his web site, he seemed smart and knowledgeable.
Bryan said:
No, just used pH paper in the lab. It read everything else correctly. Prox-N is clear, so no mess up there. I had to use 3 different strips before getting a low enough one to read it exactly. The first two said it was at the bottom of their range. Maybe, just maybe, Prox-N has so many chemicals in it that they reacted with the paper the same way a high hydrogen concentration would.
Th next step is to dilute a drop (0.05mL) 100:1 (to 5mL), and see if the pH is 4.2 (for a strong acid) or lower (if it is a weak acid with buffering effect). I'll do that. I doubt those strips would still be tricked then. Water should be pH 5.5-6, so if I get 4.2, something is up. Water even has its own buffering, which is why I'll use the milliQ water.
how could Dr Proctor afford to do a study on NANO? Small study, or just NANO users sending in pictures?
What is Dr Proctor's clinical experience with Phenytoin? Invitro labs stuff? Animal body hair? The reported side effects of alopecia, excess hair, and acne? Or did he do experiments on scalp hair? I know monkey scalp follicles are like ours. I'm not so sure about mouse head follicles.
Did he test it by itself, or combined as Proxiphen?
What is Dr Proctor's clinical experience with Phenytoin? Invitro labs stuff? Animal body hair? The reported side effects of alopecia, excess hair, and acne? Or did he do experiments on scalp hair? I know monkey scalp follicles are like ours. I'm not so sure about mouse head follicles.
Did he test it by itself, or combined as Proxiphen?
- Reaction score
- 42
When I talk about his "clinical experience", I'm referring to his many many years of seeing the hairgrowth effects of his products on his patients. Phenytoin was one of the very first agents that he used, and is (presumably) partly responsible for the very NAME of "Proxiphen". To have used it consistently all this time, he must truly think it works.
hitting male pattern baldness from a possibly new angle for only $1 extra per month is very tempting. I don't like the side effects I read on that web site though: alopecia, excess hair, acne. That is just one web site though, and I don't know the frequency or proof of those side effects, since anyone taking Dilantin could complain that they got acne when they would have anyway.
As for Proctor believing in it, Lee believes in azelaic acid, though I agree that Lee is not much of a scientist. At least Proctor made it into Life Extention's book. Not sure if he paid to get in, or if they thought he was that good. Though their book said flutamide is an "anti-androgen", which we both know is BS.
As for Proctor believing in it, Lee believes in azelaic acid, though I agree that Lee is not much of a scientist. At least Proctor made it into Life Extention's book. Not sure if he paid to get in, or if they thought he was that good. Though their book said flutamide is an "anti-androgen", which we both know is BS.
http://www.becomenatural.com/blog/2007/ ... e-effects/
In all fairness, that site said minoxidil can cause acne when applied topically. So maybe I should not hold that against the phenytoin.
------------------------------
but check out this:
A number of reports have linked phenytoin to drug-induced lupus and collagen vascular disease. It has caused subacute lupus,[65] dermatomyositis,[66] systemic lupus with vasculitis,[67] systemic lupus with arthritic manifestations,[68] and alopecia linked with lupus.[69] Lupus can occur in children taking phenytoin.[70] One report has linked phenytoin to the development of a systemic sclerosis like disease[71], and one patient developed scleroderma while taking it.[72] Phenytoin-induced pseudo-Sjögren syndrome that included infiltrated salivary glands has been noted.[73]
http://dermatology.cdlib.org/93/reviews ... nfeld.html
---------------------------------
oral minoxidil:
Upjohn listed "undesirable hair growth" as one of the side effects associated with Loniten. Specifically, 8 out of every 10 patients reported that body hair grew longer and darker while on Loniten. The hair growth usually starts within 3 - 6 weeks after beginning treatment. It is commonly reported that the hair growth tends to start on the forehead, temples, cheeks, and between the eyebrows. Subsequently, hair growth may be noticed on arms, legs and scalp.
In all fairness, that site said minoxidil can cause acne when applied topically. So maybe I should not hold that against the phenytoin.
------------------------------
but check out this:
A number of reports have linked phenytoin to drug-induced lupus and collagen vascular disease. It has caused subacute lupus,[65] dermatomyositis,[66] systemic lupus with vasculitis,[67] systemic lupus with arthritic manifestations,[68] and alopecia linked with lupus.[69] Lupus can occur in children taking phenytoin.[70] One report has linked phenytoin to the development of a systemic sclerosis like disease[71], and one patient developed scleroderma while taking it.[72] Phenytoin-induced pseudo-Sjögren syndrome that included infiltrated salivary glands has been noted.[73]
http://dermatology.cdlib.org/93/reviews ... nfeld.html
---------------------------------
oral minoxidil:
Upjohn listed "undesirable hair growth" as one of the side effects associated with Loniten. Specifically, 8 out of every 10 patients reported that body hair grew longer and darker while on Loniten. The hair growth usually starts within 3 - 6 weeks after beginning treatment. It is commonly reported that the hair growth tends to start on the forehead, temples, cheeks, and between the eyebrows. Subsequently, hair growth may be noticed on arms, legs and scalp.
- Reaction score
- 42
collegechemistrystudent said:
But you're talking about the ORAL use of phenytoin, right? (I haven't seen the Web site you're talking about) I would take such side-effects from the ORAL use of that drug with a grain or two of salt. Topical phenytoin appears to be very very safe.
I've said for a long time that anybody who is attempting to treat his hairloss with the various common and popular treatments, and yet is ignoring the possible use of topical phenytoin (which is pretty cheap, safe, and easy to obtain) is missing out on a very interesting and important substance which could make a difference. As many times as we've talked about using as many different things as possible that work in different ways, why would anybody ignore phenytoin, which is one of Dr. Proctor's original agents in Proxiphen??
collegechemistrystudent said:
WHAT Life Extension book??
collegechemistrystudent said:
But flutamide IS an antiandrogen. And what book are you talking about?
Phenytoin can produce unusual growth of hair in some patients. This reaction most commonly affects the arms and legs but can also affect the trunk and face; it may be irreversible.
Various lymph node reactions have been reported with phenytoin therapy. Lymph nodes may swell up, sometimes painfully
http://www.medicinenet.com/phenytoin/article.htm
Various lymph node reactions have been reported with phenytoin therapy. Lymph nodes may swell up, sometimes painfully
http://www.medicinenet.com/phenytoin/article.htm