On finasteride and nizoral - when do you need to move to the Big 3?

[mightymouse]

Hi Guys,

New to the forum but have been reading in the background for a while. I'm 24 years old and would assess myself as being a Norwood 2.5. I think I started receeding in my early twenties but it has only progressed from a 2 to a 2.5 over the past 6 months The only hairloss I have is along my hairline with receeded temples which isn't a worry to me but what is is the thinner "peak" i seem to have.

I have been on finasteride now for 3.5 months with no sides. I went for a checkup with the doctor about 2 weeks ago who in comparison to his original records said that my left temple had a bunch of hairs covering approximately 1cm that was previously bald. My right temple, which has receeded more, has responded somewhat but not to the same extent.

My question then is are these results indicative that:
a) Inevitably my little tuft or central peak will thicken up?
b) My right temple will ultimately catch up to my left?

And finally is it necessary for me to add minoxidil at this stage to thicken up my peak or should I just continue with finasteride alone for now?

I apologise as I know some of the questions have been addressed elsewhere but I was wondering how they would be answered given my early responsiveness to propecia. Will try to take pics and any help would be most appreciated!


MM

 

[mightymouse]

Oh right, I forgot to mention in my initial post that I've been using Nizoral 2% twice a week for the same period of time. Andrew what made you decide to go to the big three straight away or did you actually start with just minoxidil then add propecia later?

MM

 

[ANDREW_J_I]

sorry mate, i miss read the title. i read what do you need, not when do u need.

well mate, to me losing hair is very very improtant, so i just thought im not gonna waste anymore time, im gonna jump onto the two proven methods straight away. ones a dht blocker, ones a growth stimulant, and then i thought why not chuck in sum good shampoo, as my scalp aint too healthy.

and this forum helped me greatly coming to decisions. i can remember reading posts on here and it wudnt let me join with my current email address, and i really wanted to start posting.

im glad to be here.

 

[Def]

Mate

I see you've only been on the Finasteride for about 3.5 months.

As someone who's been using the big 3 for around 3.5 years, I would definitely recommend holding off on the Minoxidil for now. You should wait AT LEAST 12 months before upping your regimen to include Minoxidil - especially if you're seeing evidence of regrowth from the nizoral and finasteride alone already.

My advice would be to hold off on the minoxidil for as long as you can - only when things start taking a turn for the worse should you hop on it.

Def

 

[Subliminal]

Mate

I see you've only been on the Finasteride for about 3.5 months.

As someone who's been using the big 3 for around 3.5 years, I would definitely recommend holding off on the Minoxidil for now. You should wait AT LEAST 12 months before upping your regimen to include Minoxidil - especially if you're seeing evidence of regrowth from the nizoral and finasteride alone already.

My advice would be to hold off on the minoxidil for as long as you can - only when things start taking a turn for the worse should you hop on it.

Def

What's the logic with holding off on minoxidil? I hold off on minoxidil because it seems to make the pores on my face open up and secrete more oil. But if it's tolerated, why not just add it? I know you won't know which individual treatment helps you the best, but the goal is regrowth in the end regardless of how you get there. Time is of the essence and 12 months is a long time.

 

[Bryan]

My advice would be to hold off on the minoxidil for as long as you can - only when things start taking a turn for the worse should you hop on it.

What's the logic with holding off on minoxidil?

I suspect that Def's logic behind that recommendation is that he thinks that minoxidil works for only a relatively short period of time (maybe a year or so), so you should "save" it for when you need it the most. However, I doubt that fundamental premise. As I've explained many many times in the past, I think that minoxidil _may_ very well work for as long as you continue to use it.

Bryan

 

[Felk]

My advice would be to hold off on the minoxidil for as long as you can - only when things start taking a turn for the worse should you hop on it.

What's the logic with holding off on minoxidil?

I suspect that Def's logic behind that recommendation is that he thinks that minoxidil works for only a relatively short period of time (maybe a year or so), so you should "save" it for when you need it the most. However, I doubt that fundamental premise. As I've explained many many times in the past, I think that minoxidil _may_ very well work for as long as you continue to use it.

Bryan

That gives me some hope bryan. I'm considering adding minoxidil (ive only been on finasteride a few weeks) because i want to thicken my hugely thin spots, not just maintain. However my main problem with this is the minoxidil studies showing haircounts going back down to baseline on average after five years, so i figured to give myself ten years of current hair (on average) i'd use finasteride, then minoxidil.

Thats probably the smart plan, but god I want to thicken, not just maintain!

For the original poster - however i think if you feel you really need it, add the minoxidil - it just may work for a long time for you, everyone's different.

Is there any evidence out there that suggests combined finasteride/min will work for as long/longer than using one after the other?

 

[Aplunk1]

The decrease in hair counts following by continuous minoxidil usage over the course of several years...

This is likely due to the fact that male pattern baldness is a progressive disease. The people included in the minoxidil studies weren't on internal DHT-inhibition medicine. (Minoxidil has no effect on DHT) So, they are still going bald... just slower because of the minoxidil.

 

[Bryan]

That gives me some hope bryan. I'm considering adding minoxidil (ive only been on finasteride a few weeks) because i want to thicken my hugely thin spots, not just maintain. However my main problem with this is the minoxidil studies showing haircounts going back down to baseline on average after five years...

OF COURSE they'll eventually get back down to baseline (and even lower), if all you're using is minoxidil. That's because minoxidil probably doesn't interfere with the fundamental balding process. So balding just slowly continues on its merry way, getting worse and worse as the years go by, easily overtaking the initial beneficial effect of the minoxidil.

As I've said so many times before, the proper way to think of minoxidil is that it gives you an offset of extra regrowth, above and beyond what you would have without it. So if you don't bother to use anything else besides minoxidil that has some kind of antiandrogenic effect (finasteride, dutasteride, spironolactone, fluridil, RU, or whatever), then you'll still continue to have that extra offset of growth, but the net effect (normal growth + offset) will still continue to slowly deteriorate as time goes by.

See what I mean?

Bryan

 

[Felk]

Aaah thanks for clearing that up. Indeed your claim of minoxidil only giving you an "initial offset of growth" i read before was one thing keeping away from the stuff. So when combined with something that inhibits DHT, its not just an initial offset, but one that could be maintained a lot longer?

I remember doctor P warning people that minoxidil "may stop working after 3-4 years" but i can't remember if the person was using minoxidil alone.

Anyway, sounds better than i thought!

 

[ANDREW_J_I]

put it this way. if u hold off minoxidil, and propeica doesnt work so great alone, then uv wasted a year.

my hairs important to me, i did not wanna risk that. i went straight onto the big 3 and feel great thinkin im doing all i can.

 

[mightymouse]

Ok this is perfect thanks. I shared the same concerns as Felk and did want I guess "use up" my minoxidil years, preferring to save them for down the track just in case. What you say makes sense though Bryan and it may be better off for me to just add in minoxidil now if I'm not looking at substantial losses in hair five years down the track.

Ideally I'd love to move from Norwood 2.5/3 ish to a 2 and I guess I'll have to throw everything at it to have a shot.

MM

 

[Felk]

put it this way. if u hold off minoxidil, and propeica doesnt work so great alone, then uv wasted a year.

What is this based on? You've given a single treatment a proper trial, really, which is recommended. Otherwise it's hard to tell what's working.

I mean what happens if you are a good resonder to the big 3, but get serious finasteride side effects? You have to drop the drug, not knowing whether your hair is dependant on the minoxidil or the finasteride.

I don't agree with the "the later you start the better" claims of long term minoxidil users who are afraid of it stopping working, now i've heard from bryan. But the year certainly isn't "wasted" in my opinion.