oral spironolactone with avodart

[antonio666]

if i were to start taking oral spironolactone with my avodart,what would be the benefit if any?

 

[IBM]

if i were to start taking oral spironolactone with my avodart,what would be the benefit if any?

There's a lot of threads about oral spironolactone. A valuable source is hairlosshelp forum because there's more users in this route.
Oral spironolactone is very danger so you'd better study the pros and cons by yourself. And trust me: there's a lot of cons so dont whine.

I believe that testosterone (among DHT) has something to do with hairloss though its not scientifically proved. Maybe its a nonsense. No one knows.

 

[antonio666]

ibm ,i agree with you,if it was just DHT doing the damage dutas would be a cure,but if things don't start improving i may be forced into taking thayt
route

 

[Sean68]

do you need oral spironolactone if youre on avodart? i dont know.surely youre already obliterating almost all dht or at least plenty enough to see some benefit. maybe you should think of other reasons why it isnt working rather than try and eliminate testosterone as well. bear in mind ive been on dutasteride for almost a year and i havent seen anything either so that what im thinking of anyway.

i need to look how oral spironolactone works really im just rambling a bit now.

 

[IBM]

I remember, before using the meds, that i always was with itch in my scalp specially in the middle of my scalp and hairline.
The itch worsened when in hot summer and in the minimum sweat i was in Earth center burning my scalp.
It was a pain in the ***. 17 hours of itch per day (so everyday). And i'm not lying. This is the truth. I should not call it itch but flame, burn, scalp corrosive thing or acid rain.
Sometimes the itch was so bad that i had to go bed early (around 06 pm) and try to sleep so to not feel the pain.
I even had nightmares with that. I remember one that my head was full of pimples opened, bleeding and burning a lot. When i woke up i realized that i was scratching my head very hard so bad was the pain. Very depressing.

With meds my itch lowered to 7-9 hours per day. I wake up, wash my hair, take finasteride.... at 15, 16 o'clock my itch start.

Some days ago i experimented 100 mg of Oral spironolactone. It was the second time i was trying at that dose. When i took it 30 minutes later my itch stopped completely and my whole body became very numb. Like suddenly the whole world found Peace, Love and Serenity. It was a great feeling. In the first time it happened to.
I dont take 100mg everyday because i dont have money for it. If i was rich i would take 200mg with no problems.

So i believe testosterone is something bad to the scalp. My scalp condition became worse and worse as i grew up. With eleven i hadnt this problems, with 15 i was feeling something, with 17 it was normal to have greasy and oily scalp at third day after washing. With 20 the greasy and oil was in the second day after washing. So take the conclusions.

Oral spironolactone is danger, it soft the bones, make us depressive, we become very weak and not to talk about sexual performance and tits. But each one have to measure the cons of taking oral spironolactone and the cons of feeling the scalp being harvested with Zyclon-B.

 

[Harie]

IBM - have you tried taking high doses of fish oil to combat your itchy scalp? A few people on regrowth swear by it for ridding itchy scalp. You could also try topical Tea Tree Oil at night. Or...topical beer & olive oil at night.

 

[CCS]

oral spironolactone does nothing but lower your testosterone, which you need. That will indirectly reduce DHT even less. It is a very dumb treatment. Use topical spironolactone.

 

[IBM]

oral spironolactone does nothing but lower your testosterone, which you need. That will indirectly reduce DHT even less. It is a very dumb treatment. Use topical spironolactone.

You haven't said why is a dumb treatment.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

oral spironolactone does nothing but lower your testosterone, which you need. That will indirectly reduce DHT even less. It is a very dumb treatment. Use topical spironolactone.

You haven't said why is a dumb treatment.

b/c of the severe side effects.

 

[CCS]

oral spironolactone does nothing but lower your testosterone, which you need. That will indirectly reduce DHT even less. It is a very dumb treatment. Use topical spironolactone.

You haven't said why is a dumb treatment.

b/c of the severe side effects.

no, because it does not affect hair loss, for the reasons I stated in that quote, which IBM ignored.

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

oral spironolactone does nothing but lower your testosterone, which you need. That will indirectly reduce DHT even less. It is a very dumb treatment. Use topical spironolactone.

You haven't said why is a dumb treatment.

b/c of the severe side effects.

no, because it does not affect hair loss, for the reasons I stated in that quote, which IBM ignored.

i think its "dumb" more so because of its severe "POTENTIAL" side effects.

 

[Bryan]

no, because it does not affect hair loss, for the reasons I stated in that quote, which IBM ignored.

Don't forget that small trial which showed a benefit for hair from 200 mg/day of oral spironolactone. I've posted that several times in the past.

BTW, I think it's still unclear whether oral spironolactone at these lower doses that are typically taken by some guys for hairloss (25-100 mg/day, or thereabouts) RAISE or LOWER testosterone. It could go either way. Unless there's scientific evidence to the contrary, my guess is that such a lower dose would probably RAISE testosterone a bit.

 

[CCS]

So spironolactone is metabolised into another chemical, which at very low doses maybe raises testosterone, but at more moderate does lowers it some. But as the dose passes 150mg/day, not all the spironolactone is metabolised, and the non-metabolised spironolactone is an androgen receptor blocker. This affects adrogens everywhere, in the brain, penis, hair, etc. Propecia is much safer and more effective.

Bryan, how effective was the oral spironolactone in that study, at 200mg/day?

 

[Bryan]

So spironolactone is metabolised into another chemical, which at very low doses maybe raises testosterone, but at more moderate does lowers it some. But as the dose passes 150mg/day, not all the spironolactone is metabolised, and the non-metabolised spironolactone is an androgen receptor blocker.

That's not really what I'm talking about. Giving ANY antiandrogen systemically will tend to increase testosterone production, because of the feedback regulation by the HPT axis. But spironolactone certainly isn't a "pure" antiandrogen, and one of its other effects is that it also interferes with the synthesis of testosterone.

So spironolactone has at least two different competing effects: its antiandrogenic property which tends to RAISE testosterone production, and its ability to inhibit a specific step in the testosterone-manufacturing process which tends to LOWER it.

I don't really know which of the two competing effects wins-out at the lower doses we're talking about here, but my guess (which is pretty much all it is) is that it's the first one. The impression I've gotten from reading studies with animals is that you have to give them pretty large dose of spironolactone before their T levels drop significantly.

Bryan, how effective was the oral spironolactone in that study, at 200mg/day?

I'll post that entire study here in this thread, when I can find it (it's just a short report). I've got it around here someplace...

 

[Bryan]

Ok, here's the full text of that small trial with oral spironolactone (minus the references at the end), which was a Letter to the Editor in: Clinical Endocrinology (1997) 47, 759-761.

Those researchers used only 4 people in that little test (2 women and 2 men), but they did take 200 mg of oral spironolactone every day for six months! You can read the results for yourself, below. I've even reproduced the table showing all the data; the numbers will line up perfectly if you have a fixed-width font:

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/oral_spiro.txt

 

[CCS]

daily hair loss dropped from an average of 150 to less than 100 hairs per day. If we assume that 50 hairs are actually lost per day, that is about 18,000 hairs per year, or about 18% of a man's hair each year.

The propecia placebo group lost 50% of their hair in 5 years, which is half the hair loss rate. Maybe the spironolactone group was regrowing.

Unfortunately, this test only shows how many hairs fell out, and now how many regrew each day.

Blood pressure was reduced, and all androgen receptors, even those with 5ar1, are blocked. Also, muscle cell androgen receptors, which don't even use DHT, are blocked too. Much higher side effect profile.