Pantothenic Acid (B5)

[cwaigy]

I'm now 24, and around 4 years ago, due to increasingly oily skin and acne I started B5 megadosing (10g a day). This worked wonders and really cleared up my oily skin.

I gradually noticed accelerated hairloss in a male pattern baldness pattern. The rate of loss correlates exactly to when I'm taking B5 so I know it's related. I've theorised that B5 somehow aids in the conversion of testosterone into DHT, hence the accelerated hairloss.

When I start taking DHT / 5ar blockers while on B5 my oily skin and acne return so that backs up my previous theory as there will be excess testosterone in my body again as the B5 is unable to aid in conversion to DHT.

If I don't take anything, and slowly come off B5 then my oily skin returns but my hair loss usually slows down. I think this is due to the fact that the testosterone concentration goes up in my blood as B5 isn't assisting in converting excess to DHT.

It seems therefore, that rather than just concentrate on preventing DHT from forming I also need to do something about the testosterone in my blood to prevent me from getting oily skin. (when I'm not taking B5, and/or taking a DHT / 5ar blocker.)

The best way I can think of is by lowering my Testosterone levels, or blocking them by raising my SHBG levels, or try and find something that can bind to the androgen receptors to prevent even testosterone from binding.

Any theories / thoughts, etc as to where I can start, what I can take as the official things for hair loss seem to be aimed at DHT, but I also need to tackle the testosterone?

Cheers
Craig

 

[hellohello]

Hey mate get an azleic acid based skin cream or retinol based like Green Cream or something it will clear up your skin but use it sparingly

 

[cwaigy]

I've gone down the topical route before, although mainly with Benzoyl Peroxide. I actually found that made things worse as although it had some effect in killing off the bacteria on my skin, my oily skin got worse which offset the effects of the Benzoyl Peroxide.

I'm a little concerned that Azelaic Acid or Green Cream may have a similar effect which would be bad considering without B5 my skin already gets very oily.

Ideally I'm trying to treat the problem internally, but the only thing that seems to be an option to tackle Testosterone itself rather than just DHT, is to take some kind of Estrogen derivative or spironolactone which isn't really an option for me being male.

Cheers
Craig

 

[the_swami]

The rate of loss correlates exactly to when I'm taking B5 so I know it's related. I've theorised that B5 somehow aids in the conversion of testosterone into DHT, hence the accelerated hairloss.

I really doubt that. Most likely it was due to your dosage of b5, 10g is crazy! At that level (even if you were taking a b-multi) you absorption of the other b vitamins would be effected by such a high dose. If you were getting a biotin or b6 deficiency then that could definitely have caused hair loss.


Just my 2 cents...

 

[cwaigy]

The thing is though, when I'm megadosing B5 I lose hair in the typical male pattern baldness way, i.e. a rapid, receding hairline and thinning scalp which is what leads me to believe B5 is involved in scalp DHT production or something along those lines.

It still could be indirectly related to a vitamin deficiency caused by megadosing, but that in itself could be causing the extra elevated scalp DHT or over sensitivity to the existing, normal levels of DHT.

Surely my body hair and hair around the back and sides of my head would suffer the same fate as that on my temples and scalp if DHT wasn't the culprit?

Cheers
Craig

 

[Solo]

WTF?? Is 10g too much??


I´ve been taking 50g in my B-complex vits since three months ago!!


:shock: :shock:

 

[Solo]

Sorry, I´m stupid.


Now I´ve read it right.


10 g


I take 50 mg.


Me crazy, me know nothing.

 

[cwaigy]

Yep, I was taking 10 grams of the stuff a day. I tell you what it worked wonders on what used to be oily skin, so much so I had to use a moisturiser!

The side effects I noticed from megadosing that much B5 were:

• It seemed to raise my basal body temperature a lot and increased my body's response to physical exertion so I'd easily get hot and bothered and pour with sweat.
  
  The major down side was the rate at which I was experiencing male pattern baldness really accelerated which is why I believe B5 somehow is involved in DHT production in the scalp, infact I'm convinced of it.
  
  Lastly a positive side effect was I could eat the most unhealthy diet but not actually store any of the stuff as fat so it's great for losing or maintaining weight.

Cheers
Craig

 

[the_swami]

Surely my body hair and hair around the back and sides of my head would suffer the same fate as that on my temples and scalp if DHT wasn't the culprit?

I don't think that is correct logic. Just because it may have been MPH type hair loss, doesn't mean B5 *directly* effects DHT somehow (it could but I woud be suprised). It could be that B5 is raising other androgens though (and in turn DHT) because it does play a role in adrenal function and steroid creation.

Most likely a deficiency in one of the other B-vits was causing some problems (or it is even possible that B5 has overdose symptoms that I'm not aware of). A deficiency of one or more of the B-vitamins is usually pretty serious. They are all really important.

Just to point out how much 10 grams of B5 really is, compare that to the RDA (uk rda is 6 mg, couldn't find us rda but probably close). So that means 10g is about 1666 times the rda. I think that even if that dosage is helping your skin it is so high that it could be potentially pretty dangerous. I'd say 500mg pantothenic acid is probably okay (and even that amount is %5000 rda), but I wouldn't go beyond that. I just pulled that number out of the air though, I don't have any study or anything to back that up. By the way, 500mg is also the maximum amount of of B6 a person should take, beyond that you risk nerve damage. So as safe as the B vitamins are overall, for the most part it is dangerous to take *really* high amounts of any of them (especially if you don't balance with a much greater amount of the other B-vits).

 

[jimmyjames]

I'm now 24, and around 4 years ago, due to increasingly oily skin and acne I started B5 megadosing (10g a day). This worked wonders and really cleared up my oily skin.

I gradually noticed accelerated hairloss in a male pattern baldness pattern. The rate of loss correlates exactly to when I'm taking B5 so I know it's related. I've theorised that B5 somehow aids in the conversion of testosterone into DHT, hence the accelerated hairloss.

I'm not sure if anyone is still following this thread, but what I read blew me away. I'm also 24 and about 5 years ago I started taking massive doses of B5 for my skin. And if I think about it, it was around that time that my hair started to recede. I had no idea the two things could be related.

Is this just a coincedence? What's troubling is that although I stopped taking the B5 two years ago (my skin cleared up), my hair loss is continuing. I'm receding even more and my hair has thinned considerably. Did I put something in motion by overdoing the B5 for three years? Is that possible?

Thoughts?
Suggestions?

 

[KenF]

I'm not sure if anyone is still following this thread, but what I read blew me away. I'm also 24 and about 5 years ago I started taking massive doses of B5 for my skin. And if I think about it, it was around that time that my hair started to recede. I had no idea the two things could be related.

Is this just a coincedence? What's troubling is that although I stopped taking the B5 two years ago (my skin cleared up), my hair loss is continuing. I'm receding even more and my hair has thinned considerably. Did I put something in motion by overdoing the B5 for three years? Is that possible?

My god...

I'm not an active participant on this forums, I just occasionally check in from time to time to get the latest information on suggested regimens...but I just had to register after seeing this post.

I'm 27. About 4.5 years ago, I began using a topical Retin A (prescription) and a 2-4g/day supplement of B5 in an attempt to keep my face clear. For the most part, it worked -- I had healthier, less-oily skin with far fewer breakouts. However, 3-6 months into it I began to see massive hair shedding.

(To be fair, this also occurred after some emotional trauma, which led to a period of high stress which accompanied a poor diet and little meaningful exercise, but during which I still took that 2-4g/day of B5.)

All my life, until that point, I had the thickest, densest, fastest-growing light blonde hair imaginable (had to cut it relatively short every 2 weeks to keep it out of my eyes) with a very low, even hairline. I could cut my hair extremely short, and you still couldn't see my scalp in direct sunlight because my hair was so dense.

But within three months, I'd seen not only a massive drop in the speed and thickness of hair growth...but I was shedding upwards of 50 hairs per day. My dermatologist suggested I get on Propecia, and I did. I discontinued the RetinA and B5 supplements shortly thereafter, as I was worried more about my hair then my face. My hair continued to shed for the next 3-4 months, until I had hit NW2, with hair that was thinner and a darker blonde. At that point, the shedding stopped and hasn't occurred since, but I have not experienced much (if any) regrowth.

(As an aside, my face remained relatively clear -- at least by comparison -- after the hair loss had started.)

Now, NW2 isn't that bad, but the rapid rate of hair loss / receding scared the living crap out of me. Until then, I'd always thought that MPH was a gradual process, occuring over the course of years. I've also lost more hair then NW2 would imply, since I began with a lower-than-average hairline. My father hadn't hit NW2 until his late 30s, the same for his father; the grandfather on my mother's side never had MPH and maintained thick red hair up until his death to an accident in his early 50s.

My hair has receded less in the past four years than it did in those 2-3 months, while I've remained on Propecia. My hair is a darker, dirtier blond and not as dense (in either thickness or # of hairs), but has only receded very slightly since, despite stress levels that have remained high since that event in late 2001.

From reading the posts above, I wonder if the combination of that B5 supplement and emotional trauma/stress could have caused me to get preliminary MPH? Or was it just a coindence?

 

[jimmyjames]

Ken - I know exactly what you mean. When I read the posts before mine, I got this awful sinking feeling. Yeah, the B5 did a lot for my skin (I didn't take any other medication because I thought this was a natural, harmless way to improve my skin), but if it was at the expense of my hair, wow.....

I don't know - I'm going to look into it. It might just be coincedence, but my hair loss was RAPID. I, too, had a lot of hair and in a very short time, a good chunk of it fell out. That and there isn't a lot of hair loss in my family except for much later in life.

And, by the by, along these lines, does it worry you at all that Propecia hasn't been tested for long term effects?

Let me know if you find out anything about the B5.....

 

[liquidfirex]

Old thread I know but I think it's important for people to know:

b5hairloss.com

 

[Jonny Craig]

bump.

 

[T4T]