PCM's story

[PCM]

Hi all,

This seems like a great resource, thanks in advance.

To start, i have been cutting my hair very short for years- party because it is so thick and curly and hard to handle when it's any longer than 1/2". I'm now 25 years old, and much to my surprise, I've noticed what appears to be overall thinning on the top of my head.

Part of the reason I'm having such a hard time figuring out if I'm actually having hair loss or not, is that I have a VERY white scalp and curly black hair, so I've always been able to see curly patches with accompanying bare scalp when it's cut short. This has always been very prominent on the sides, but now is evident on the top as well. I guess what you would call "diffuse" thinning. My hair also seems lighter in color, and thinner and softer on the top. I can definitely see through more than I could before. I'm pretty sure it's thinning all over on top. But my hair line has not receded at all, and I am not getting the typical "bald spot" on the back of my head. So what steps do I take to get a diagnosis as to whether this the beginnings of BIG hairloss, or just natural thinning of the hair? The jury is out regarding others' opinions. 1 person out of 4 that I asked said she saw some thinning. So that makes 2 versus 3 that say I'm definitely thinning (1 is myself).

I've read about rogaine, propecia, naziril shampoo, vitamins, etc, and honestly I think I'm more confused than when I started.

If this is hereditary hair loss, I'd like to nip it in the bud now. I'm feeling scared, to be honest. I have thick wonderful dark hair and people always comment on how nice it is. My current gf says one of the reasons she was so attracted to me early on was my thick hair (she doesn;t know about my hair thinning or at least hasn't said anything). this is depressing if true.

Family genetics are pretty moderate regarding hair loss on both sides - both uncles have male pattern baldness, but most of them were ok until in at least their mid-30's 40's. My grandfathers on both sides had full heads of hair. My dad started losing it in his 40's but still has some on top. typical as he's 71 now. I'm 25. I want to stop it if it's coming now so i can hold out for better treatments.

Thanks

 

[docj077]

I'm not going to lie to you. It's sort of strange that you're experiencing thinning when you said that your grandfather had a full head of hair. It's too bad you can't go back farther in your family history.

I personallly don't buy the hair loss being inherited from either side B.S. If you're a woman, yes, but if you're a man, no.

The androgen receptor is coded for on the X chromosome, which means you get it from your mom, which means she either inherited the triplet repeat defect from her mom or her dad. If her dad didnt' loose any hair, then you should check to see if her mom had female pattern baldness or any thinning. That might tell you something. As for your Dad, he's pretty much innocent unless some strange transposition of the androgen receptor occurred and you inherited it on his Y chromosome. If that happened, then all hell has broken loose.

If you can't figure out your pedigree or it seems like it shouldn't be male pattern baldness, then go see a dermatologist. In fact, go see one anyway. But, find a good one. Most derms really, really suck at what they do.

Good luck.

 

[Guest]

hey man you seem to know a lot about the genetics behind hair loss, judging by one of your recent responses in the tell your story forum about the X chromosome.

Here's my genetic history:

My maternal grandpa is like an NW2.5 in his early eighties but was fine till recently and his father had a lot of hair into his sixties. My mom's brother, my uncle is like a Norwood 1.5 at age 55. My dad on the other hand is a nw4.5 ish at 50 and his dad was a nw6 in his 60s. My paternal grandmother has thin hair as well at 73 but it's not noticeable.

So why am I a nw1.5 at 22 with crown and frontal thinning?

I always thought that the mother's father's determinant was a myth, but then I saw your post and it seemed to make sense.

there are other people on here in my same situation like htownballa who have great maternal histories but bad paternal ones.

 

[CCS]

...

But, find a good one. Most derms really, really suck at what they do.

Good luck.

I wonder if Lookinggood! is reading this. He thinks doctors are gods who can tell us how to treat hairloss.

 

[CCS]

other biochemistry students have told me the same thing, that it comes from the mother's side. But that is the androgen receptor. Maybe there is more at play than just the androgen receptor, like the 5ar gene, or something else. Since not everyone responds to propecia, it shows maybe we don't have everything figured out.

 

[docj077]

other biochemistry students have told me the same thing, that it comes from the mother's side. But that is the androgen receptor. Maybe there is more at play than just the androgen receptor, like the 5ar gene, or something else. Since not everyone responds to propecia, it shows maybe we don't have everything figured out.

That's a good thought. I'm going to think about that for a while.

I wonder if that enzyme is coded for on an autosome. If it is, then things could be a whole lot more complicated that what I said earlier.

Good thinking.

 

[docj077]

...

But, find a good one. Most derms really, really suck at what they do.

Good luck.

I wonder if Lookinggood! is reading this. He thinks doctors are gods who can tell us how to treat hairloss.

It's funny, because I'm going to school to be a doctor and I still say stuff like that.

Derms are some of the most hated people in the medical world. Everyone thinks they are overpaid, lazy, and relatively unknowledgeable.

Sorry if I offended anyone by saying that, but I've also found that it's the truth.

They just don't know the biochemistry so they treat the superficial problem and not the biochemical problem.

 

[CCS]

In your opinion, how many of your classmates really know the material, and how many cheat or cram their way through?

 

[docj077]

In your opinion, how many of your classmates really know the material, and how many cheat or cram their way through?

There really isn't any cheating, but everyone crams for at least a couple tests each year. There is just way too much to learn. I find that instead of reading my textbooks, I usually end up going through about a 1,000 powerpoint slides and reading review books before each test. It hasn't failed me yet.


By the way, the 5AR Type II gene is on chromosome 2 and the 5AR Type I gene is on chromosome 5. Good stuff. To have a 5AR type II deficiency you need to have an autosomal recessive mutation.

So, the question is since it's inherited from both sides (which means you make the enzyme from both chromosomes), how does this fit into our hair loss picture and pedigree?

Obviously, increased DHT production could be inherited from either parent as it's on an autosome. However, the androgen receptor is still on the x chromosome.

I don't know if they've ever identified a mutation that upregulated the 5AR type II gene before. That would be fascinating science.

 

[clinicallyhairpressed]

Hey Guys,

You have a 50% chance of inheriting the androgen receptor gene from your mothers father, and 25% chance of inheriting it from you mothers maternal grandfather (your grandmothers father), and 25% of inheriting an unknown X gene from further up the maternal lineage. Here's the theory:

The androgen receptor gene is indeed sex linked with the X Gene, which you inherit from your mothers side. However, Your mother has two X genes - one, which is inherited from her father (50% chance you'll get this) another, which is inherited from her mother. Because her mother also has two X Genes, the one which she inherited from her mother has a 50% chance of coming from her mothers father (your maternal grandmothers father), so you may either have your maternal grandfathers androgen receptor gene, or your maternal grandmothers fathers, or something further up the female lineage.

What sucks is, my maternal grandfather has a full head of hair, and so did my maternal grandmothers father - but i seem to be losing hair anyway, though i only had a 1 in 4 chance! Crap eh?

 

[PCM]

I'm not going to lie to you. It's sort of strange that you're experiencing thinning when you said that your grandfather had a full head of hair. It's too bad you can't go back farther in your family history.

well i wouldn't exactly say FULL heads of hair, but they had signficant hair until they died. both in their 70's. Just receding hairline, but thick black hair.

So should I give nizoral a shot until I can get in to see a Doctor or derm for further diagnosis? Seems to be pretty highly recommended.

 

[docj077]

It's really up to you. It works for some people, but I wouldn't expect to maintain your hair with it. Seeing a (good) dermatologist right away is pretty much the standard course of action.

You absolutely need a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor like propecia or avodart.

Until then, if you feel comfortable using Nizoral, go for it. Some people would probably say get on Minoxidil, as well. That's up to you, but I wouldn't. Your hair is obviously still growing, just not very well.

If your hair is thinning, propecia or avodart might just be the miracle cure for you. I've seen them work time after time for people with just general thinning.

 

[Guest]

Damn clinically hair pressed, that sucks.

My maternal grandmother's dad was bald and my maternal grandfather and maternal uncle both had great heads of hair. Looks like I got screwed by that 25% hah.

 

[Guest]

clinically hair pressed,

i read an abstract on pub med claiming that having a bald father increases the chances of you going bald in conjunction with genetic history on the motehr's side. what do you think?

NTRODUCTION: The genetic basis of androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) is well accepted in the medical community and among the general population. However, rigorous studies investigating the familial basis of Androgenetic Alopecia are lacking. The purpose of the current study was to explore the relationship between family history and expression of Androgenetic Alopecia in a sample of men from the general community. METHODS: Hair loss was assessed by an independent observer trained by an expert dermatologist using the Norwood/Hamilton classification scale and a 7-point global description of hair loss. Men were classified into two groups, one as having little or no hair loss and the other having hair loss. The family history of hair loss in parents and grandparents was assessed by subject self-report. RESULTS: Adjusting for age, men whose fathers had hair loss were 2.5 times as likely to have had some level of hair loss compared to men whose fathers had no hair loss (95% CI: 1.3-4.9). Likewise, men whose fathers had hair loss were twice as likely to have hair loss than men whose fathers had no hair loss even after adjusting for age (OR = 2.1, 95% CI: 1.2-3.7 and OR = 2.5, 95% CI: 1.4-4.7 for Norwood/Hamilton and global description of hair loss assessments, respectively). CONCLUSION: Results suggest that the probability of male pattern hair loss is dependent on family history and age. Hair loss in a man's father also appears to play an important role in increasing a man's risk of hair loss, either in conjunction with a history of hair loss in the mother or hair loss in the maternal grandfather. Copyright 2004 S. Karger AG, Basel"

 

[PCM]

Ok well i made an appt. with a dermatoligist for October 24th. She's a good one too - came highly recommended from friends and family. Until then, what is the best course of action? I don't want to touch Minoxodil until I get the actual diagnosis from the Doctor.

Should i just try the Nizoral for the next month or so? Any vitamins for short term until i can get in to see her? I'd like to do anything I can to at least maintain the status quo as the thinning seems to be moving more quickly these days.

thanks

 

[PCM]

ok I got in early to see a derm and as predicted- looks like it's propecia after all. I'll be back in a few months to report. until then, thanks everyone for the help!