Persistent side effects = fear mongering?

[Wuffer]

I am about to start on generic Finasteride, but like many people, I was concerned with the scary reports of persistent side effects that certain people have been supposedly experiencing.

I was on antidepressants for anxiety for much of my early adult life, and suffered from similar libido effects. What I noticed is even off the medications, I was suffering from the same, and eventually I determined that all of these side effects were caused by my mind.. In fact, anyone who has gone through a severe episode of anxiety knows what insane seemingly real physical and emotional symptoms can be created by the mind.

I eventually got over my anxiety and noticed that all these symptoms disappeared, including the severe loss in libido and other such things. I guess my question is what do you guys think about these reports? My biggest point is that I am not denying people are experiencing these symptoms, but is finasteride the cause? How many of these people would have experienced the same symptoms even if they didn't touch finasteride? Are these symptoms simply created by constant worrying, and reinforced by the fact that they are seeing so many other people online with the same claims?

Also, people are claiming that the drugs manufacturers were cheating the system, and lying about the 2% of people experiencing side effects, but is this even possible? Isn't the FDA in place to ensure that companies represent their actual findings from the 5 years of drug testing that they need to go through?

I find the more I read about this, the more confused I get. The internet is just as full of biased information as it is creditable information

 

[sandyc]

Like you, I was on SSRI's for anxiety when I was younger and know how the mind can be powerful about these things.

It's like men who can get an erection fine but when with a hot girl it all goes to sh*t because of anxiety.

 

[Wuffer]

Yeah, exactly! I think people underestimate exactly how strong negative perceptions (worry, doubt, etc) can be and it's affect on your physical well being. As i'm sure you have had similar experiences, I have gone through the hell that anxiety can bring (for over 5 years) and it's affect on my body, and when you feel that horrible all the time, sex is really the last thing on your mind.

From what I read, I also find that a lot of people who experience ANY physical symptoms at all while they were on Finasteride (or after) will immediately say it was caused by the drug, or I guess we could call that a placebo effect.. Especially if it's anything sexual, the drug that has a small occurance of side effects is always blamed!

 

[sandyc]

I think SE Freak and PeaPoddy are good examples. Healthy people, positive attitudes.

I read about one guy on propeciahelp who has problems with finasteride but also says he was overweight and drinks over 2 litres of normal Coke a day. I don't feel right if I have a can of Coke.

So many people don't realise what normal things they put in their body can do. Fructose Syrup, sweeteners, MSG, withdrawel from caffiene. Then you think about things like blood sugar levels etc.

 

[GeminiX]

While I don't doubt that finasteride side effects are very real for a small number of people, I suspect that the vast majority we read about on the interwebs are either some form of psychosomatic issue or simply made up by shills.

I remember only too well how easily guys can be "put off" at the critical time with a partner, add the worry of taking a drug that has the potential, all be it slim, to give sexual sides and most guys would be a nervous wreck even on a placebo.

 

[Luther007]

I think it's fearmongering. I've been on finasteride for 5 years and I'm fine. There was a drop in libido in the first couple months but that came back to normal.

What I like best is the peace of mind it gives me. I've kept my hair so far after being diagnosed with male pattern baldness by my family doctor 6 years ago. If the finasteride stops being effective sometime in the future at least I'll know I tried.

 

[Petchsky]

I also think a decent sized number of reported side effects are psychosamtic, caused by constant worry, which itself has a very negative effect on the body and mind....although I don't discount that real side effects do occur.

 

[kthxbi]

as has been said, i think a lot of it's in the head. it's the same with everything - anyone who smokes or has smoked a fair bit of pot can tell you that you can smoke a quarter ounce in one night and be fine, or you can do one bong hit and scare yourself into throwing up. same rules apply with everything, and i don't think finasteride's any different. people might get a loss in libido for a few weeks and then panic themselves into having it permanently, even after the drug's stopped having any effect in that area.

 

[Ende]

Read about secondary hypogonadism.

 

[Wuffer]

I actually did just that; searched "finasteride secondary gonadism" and only came up with the same results that I had been reading before. More forums with people claiming to have these problems, and 'articles' with no actual references or data to back up the claims that "a large number of patients reported persistent side effects after discontinuation of finasteride". In fact, after reading alot of those forum posts, I found that a lot of the people experiencing problems were generally unhealthy, as mentioned before. One was a 16 yearold guy that worked 7 days a week, worked out like crazy and took insane cocktails of performance enhancing muscle building crap, then blames finasteride for his problems.

I have found dozens of trials, all of which cite references and data, that back up the manufacturers claims of only 2% side effect rates, but I have yet to find anything concrete that support persistent side effects. All the articles that I have seen supporting this fact seem to be purely speculation. I would even go as far to say that a lot of these articles and websites have been propogated by the competition, trying to switch users over to their snake-oil solutions.

I am not looking to troll here, but it's sort of annoying hearing so many people tell me that my reproductive system will shut down by taking this medication, don't listen to my doctor because he's just a pawn in the drug propoganda, etc. I think anyone having second thoughts about finasteride, or have any questions about their health, should go talk to their doctor. Finding health advice on the internet is tempting (i've been a victim to it in the past) but it always leads to trouble!

 

[Ende]

I think anyone having second thoughts about finasteride, or have any questions about their health, should go talk to their doctor. Finding health advice on the internet is tempting (i've been a victim to it in the past) but it always leads to trouble!

You do realise that they don't get any professional help? Why? Because everything appears normal according to standards. I had several severe symptoms of elevated estrogen level and hypogonadism. My blood test revealed low testosterone level and an estrogen level slightly ABOVE range. The endocrinologist said it was nothing to worry about, and cut me off. I visited several GP's before I was able to see that endo. It took me one year, and it got me to the point where I would have turned to suicide if information and medication wasn't so easily available.

You would be surprised if you knew how many incompetent, arrogant doctors, who just don't give a sh*t about you, there are. YOU have to take care of yourself. Others who has first hand experience with the same health condition as you, will often be able to provide better advice than a doctor. They usually have a deeper perspective on things, than doctors who don't know anything else than what they've read.

It's not acknowledged yet, that finasteride is able to cause secondary hypogonadism. The problem with people, is that they have a tendency to deny or ignore everything that is hard to deal with. What you're looking for doesn't exist. The "post finasteride syndrome" is real, however, I don't share the view spokesmen from propeciahelp are presenting. I believe that we're dealing with secondary hypogonadism, induced by elevated estrogen level. I don't care what you choose to believe, but I advice you to keep an open perspective on things.

 

[Ende]

We had a discussion about the 2%; viewtopic.php?f=46&t=62075&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

2% was the result of the trial. Whether or not that percentage got higher post marketing, doesn't matter. It only tells you that the chance of experiening side effects are small, and I believe they are. What is important to know, is that there are side effects which wasn't discovered during the trial. Merck is aware of this, because they've updated the leaflet which comes with propecia, somewhere within the last two years. They now say that you should consult your doctor IMMEDIATELY if you experience itching or pain in the breast area, which indicates severe elevated estrogen level. This is known to induce secondary hypogonadism, and yet people who currently are in this situation, are having a very hard time being believed. Merck keeps their mouth shut. A producer of generic finasteride have also said that they're aware of that hyperprolactinaemia is a common reason for sexual side effects caused by this drug, and yet they don't publish what they know.

Propecia's patent expires in 2013. I wouldn't be surprised if nothing gets acknowledged before then. What they've done, will be known, and there will be consequences.

There was at least another thread, but I didn't find it now. Anyway, Merck claims that there wasn't any changes to LH during the trial, but still they noted severe side effects like impotence and gynecomastia. This simply isn't possible due to the body's negative feedback mechanism. The HPTA senses when the estrogen level raises, and reduces the amount of LH, which leads to decreased testosterone level. They also claims that the testosterone- and estrogen level increased by 15%, but remained within the normal range, and that everything returned to normal when the subjects quit the drug. Ask Colin297 and Shma on this forum. They're both struggling to recover after using finasteride, and their estrogen level is above the range.

 

[Joe-1991]

This thread explains Wuffer defending finasteride all over the hair loss boards.

One word: FEAR