kitcarson84
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Anybody tried Procerine?
Procerine vs. Propecia?
- Thread starter kitcarson84
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dont waste your money... procerin is bullshit... they offer a money back guarentee but when after wasting 3 months the sh*t does not work and they dont reply to your messages for money back.....
just buy some saw palmetto or even better, get some finasteride (propecia)
just buy some saw palmetto or even better, get some finasteride (propecia)
treadstone
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procerin is definitely a f*****g scam
kitcarson84
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ok cool.
follicle84
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yes sad to say i have 3 years ago. Done nothing for my hairline, but come to think of it i may have just had a mature hairline then, no crown thinning. Its hard to say if it works or not. procerine probably helps slows male pattern baldness down but nothing more, propecia is way better.
You could make your own Procerine by going your local pharmacy and buying some saw palmetto pills and vitamins, and save your self money. I do this but take propecia with it, and so far so good.
You could make your own Procerine by going your local pharmacy and buying some saw palmetto pills and vitamins, and save your self money. I do this but take propecia with it, and so far so good.
Thing is, most anti-androgens are going to have the same effect whether they are actually finasteride or whether they are "natural". So, if you take enough saw palmetto to effective decrease DHT in the serum, you're probably going to tolerate it similarly to how well you'd do with finasteride. In fact, saw palmetto has broader and less specific systemic effects, so I would actually make the argument that if you are dosing high enough to inhibit DHT you are also inhibiting other things that you really don't want to be messing with.
Can someone please tell me how something "natural" makes a g/d bit of difference?
Guess what? Arsenic is naturally-occuring. Maybe I should take that for my male pattern baldness. :crazy:
Can someone please tell me how something "natural" makes a g/d bit of difference?
Guess what? Arsenic is naturally-occuring. Maybe I should take that for my male pattern baldness. :crazy:
follicle84
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Drugs are known to have more harmful side effects than natural remedies, as they force changes in the body instantly rather than influence them to occur naturally from within the body. Just because something is natural however doesnt always make it safe, that is a common misconception.
Here's a link (completelly off topic) to prove my point http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...d-herbal-remedy-better-than-drugs-742055.html
The reason some people might opt for the natural over the med is that it supposivelly does the same job, is more cost effective (cheaper) and you dont have to go through the embarassment of seeing a doctor.
I personally find saw palmetto to have less side effects than finestride, but finestride yeilds the best results. I know this from experience and use both. I take saw palmetto because it is both anti- androgen and anti- estrogenic, which means less dht and less estrogen = more testosterone. I can vouch for this because my sex drive had increased.
Here's a link (completelly off topic) to prove my point http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...d-herbal-remedy-better-than-drugs-742055.html
The reason some people might opt for the natural over the med is that it supposivelly does the same job, is more cost effective (cheaper) and you dont have to go through the embarassment of seeing a doctor.
I personally find saw palmetto to have less side effects than finestride, but finestride yeilds the best results. I know this from experience and use both. I take saw palmetto because it is both anti- androgen and anti- estrogenic, which means less dht and less estrogen = more testosterone. I can vouch for this because my sex drive had increased.
No. A chemical is a chemical regardless of whether it is man-made or "naturally-occurring". You are flat-out incorrect. What matters is how that chemical interacts with the chemistry of your body. I guess you acknowledge that a little, but it's such a cop-out that I have to re-emphasize that NATURAL drugs force your body to adapt as well. Furthermore, natural drugs are not well-researched and are often not fully understood.
Find me ONE article that demonstrates a FULL understanding of the workings of Saw Palmetto and its exactly action within the body. How is it anti-estrogenic? Did you know that estrogen is how testosterone ACTS on many "androgen" receptors?
Do you also realize that estrogen is responsible for MANY things in the male body such as bone maintenance!?
Furthermore erection and sex drive are TREMENDOUSLY subject to psychosomatic influence.
Let me explain.
1. To achieve erection, your body must activate the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the branch of the autonomic nervous system responsible for "rest & digest" functions. Antagonistically, your sympathetic nervous system is responsible for "fight or flight".
2. Secondarily, hormones and your cognitive desire for sex influence the aforementioned.
Thus, if you think about sex more AND are not nervous about it because you're taking the "natural" remedy, you are more likely to be easily excitable.
Conversely, those on propecia that experience ED may be subject to the opposite. As I've said the parasympathetics are responsible for stimulating erection. The parasympathetics are typified by a relaxed and calm mental status. If you are nervous that you might get side effects, you get sympathetic stimulation which at the wrong time antagonizes the parasympathetics and decreases arousal. This is why it is SO easy to get stage fright for some men. ADDITIONALLY, I found out last night that the sensory fibers are controlled parasympathetically. What does this mean? It means that if you aren't as aroused, your penis can feel lifeless and numb in addition to not being able to reach full erection... sound familiar to some of the complaints on this board?
That is not to say that propecia side effects aren't real... what I've mentioned is simply an exascerbating factor. Because of the psychological nature of arousal, I am simply pointing out that if you aren't worried and if you EXPECT that you won't have a problem, a no change situation can quickly seem as though it's increased your libido when there are actually other factors at play.
Find me ONE article that demonstrates a FULL understanding of the workings of Saw Palmetto and its exactly action within the body. How is it anti-estrogenic? Did you know that estrogen is how testosterone ACTS on many "androgen" receptors?
Do you also realize that estrogen is responsible for MANY things in the male body such as bone maintenance!?
Furthermore erection and sex drive are TREMENDOUSLY subject to psychosomatic influence.
Let me explain.
1. To achieve erection, your body must activate the parasympathetic nervous system, which is the branch of the autonomic nervous system responsible for "rest & digest" functions. Antagonistically, your sympathetic nervous system is responsible for "fight or flight".
2. Secondarily, hormones and your cognitive desire for sex influence the aforementioned.
Thus, if you think about sex more AND are not nervous about it because you're taking the "natural" remedy, you are more likely to be easily excitable.
Conversely, those on propecia that experience ED may be subject to the opposite. As I've said the parasympathetics are responsible for stimulating erection. The parasympathetics are typified by a relaxed and calm mental status. If you are nervous that you might get side effects, you get sympathetic stimulation which at the wrong time antagonizes the parasympathetics and decreases arousal. This is why it is SO easy to get stage fright for some men. ADDITIONALLY, I found out last night that the sensory fibers are controlled parasympathetically. What does this mean? It means that if you aren't as aroused, your penis can feel lifeless and numb in addition to not being able to reach full erection... sound familiar to some of the complaints on this board?
That is not to say that propecia side effects aren't real... what I've mentioned is simply an exascerbating factor. Because of the psychological nature of arousal, I am simply pointing out that if you aren't worried and if you EXPECT that you won't have a problem, a no change situation can quickly seem as though it's increased your libido when there are actually other factors at play.
follicle84
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Yes it is also believed that estrogen plays a role in behaviour and mental, sexual functions too. The additional estrogen from finestride however can have feminizing effects which in turn is why i would look into cutting it down a little. Not necessary to get rid of it because it is important to the body, but to stop its feminizing effects. The idea is to keep estrogen to normal average male levels, yet stop too much testosterone from becoming DHT.
I was trying to generalise that there are more harmful side effects found in drug induced remedies than natural remedies despite little being known about natural remedies. I dont doubt that your telling the truth, but a lot of my findings are from personal experience aswell as what i have read.
The chemical changes induced from finestride and saw palmetto are indeed similair in the way they interact with the body. However the changes induced by finestride are a lot more potent than saw palmetto which explains why it has more severe side effects and yeilds the greater results.
Why do you think you need a doctor for this type of remedy?
True both type of remedies force the body to adapt to them. The difference lies in the fact in how these remedies force changes in the body and to what extent. I find drugs induced remedies force the greater change in this matter, hence the more severe side effects.
Your right in what you say however about the complete workings of saw palmetto not being fully understood. However there are a good few references to it having potential anti estrogenic effects here just one article
http://vitanetonline.com/forums/1/Thread/32
This mite not be the best example, but i have come across mention of this effect more than a few times. This in fact increases the likellyhood of this being true providing the sources have credibility, which i find do.
Interesting stuff about the psychology of ed and drug interaction by the way. I am sure that will put some peoples minds to rest who are using these remedies.
I was trying to generalise that there are more harmful side effects found in drug induced remedies than natural remedies despite little being known about natural remedies. I dont doubt that your telling the truth, but a lot of my findings are from personal experience aswell as what i have read.
The chemical changes induced from finestride and saw palmetto are indeed similair in the way they interact with the body. However the changes induced by finestride are a lot more potent than saw palmetto which explains why it has more severe side effects and yeilds the greater results.
Why do you think you need a doctor for this type of remedy?
True both type of remedies force the body to adapt to them. The difference lies in the fact in how these remedies force changes in the body and to what extent. I find drugs induced remedies force the greater change in this matter, hence the more severe side effects.
Your right in what you say however about the complete workings of saw palmetto not being fully understood. However there are a good few references to it having potential anti estrogenic effects here just one article
http://vitanetonline.com/forums/1/Thread/32
This mite not be the best example, but i have come across mention of this effect more than a few times. This in fact increases the likellyhood of this being true providing the sources have credibility, which i find do.
Interesting stuff about the psychology of ed and drug interaction by the way. I am sure that will put some peoples minds to rest who are using these remedies.
