Professor David Nutt

[Prince V]

I couldn't find the recent thread about the classification and actual damage of recreational drugs but this week in London really summed up the whole situation quite nicely.

Government drug advisor, Professor David Nutt, undertook research and published a paper, the crux of which being that alcohol and tobacco are far more dangerous than many illegal drugs such as cannabis or ecstasy.

"Alcohol ranks as the fifth most harmful drug after heroin, cocaine, barbiturates and methadone. Tobacco is ranked ninth," he wrote in the paper from the centre for crime and justice studies at King's College, London, published yesterday.

"Cannabis, LSD and ecstasy, while harmful, are ranked lower at 11, 14 and 18 respectively."

With cannabis use (over here it was reclassified to class B from C a few years ago) , he claimed that to prevent one episode of schizophrenia it would be necessary to "stop 5,000 men aged 20 to 25 from ever using" cannabis.

Of course these claims, however reputable and scientific, led to clashes with the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith. The result being the sacking from his position as the Governments chief drug advisor.

The scientific evidence is not outweighing the political propoganda. Disgraceful, but no surprise.

 

[cuebald]

He was sacked because he showed the status quo (the New Labour Party) up for the irrational, incompetent fools that they are.

The New Labour government is hilariously incompetent and runs policies to grab good headlines in the tabloids (even this has failed - the tabloids have now turned on New Labour like vultures around a near-dead body).
Of course, they also run policies for their own gain - deregulating the mortgage market to inflate the value of all of their Buy-to-Let portfolios, for example.

If Labour decriminalised Cannabis then comic books like the Daily Mail would wail blue murder. A competent Government wouldn't care what these rags say, but this Government places good media over good policies.

Jackie Spliff ran her post like a Nazi commandant - everything had to be exactly her way. She's the epitome of the overbearing mother - she and she alone knows what's best for every UK citizen, everything else must be banned.

She didn't sack David Nutt because she's resigned, I just wanted to jab at that silly b**ch anyways.

Vote this shower of sh*t out. Not that the Tories will be any better mind.

 

[somone uk]

i would put psychosis quite high up the list for a reason to ban weed also, we don't know who will develop psycosis and who won't
the problem is professor nutt only based it on physical harm and dependence but the problem is the economical damage that can be caused by psychological damage is high up
you can't work if you hear voices or see things
tobacco and cannabis is too general the means of getting into the body plays a large role in that, most of tobacco is because of smoking not because of tobacco itself, same with cannabis as far a physical harm
LSD can cause permanent hallucinations, years and years after taking the drug
MDMA can cause hallucinations, i mean drink driving is bad enougth and people still do it imagine mdma and driving

 

[cuebald]

I can take care of myself, if I get psychosis, on my head be it. Not Jackboots Smith's.
Look at the risks we take with Finasteride

 

[HughJass]

concerned parentsâ„¢ all over Britain will be happy that this hippy professor can no longer poison their childrens' minds with...........reasoned argument.

 

[HughJass]

Vote this shower of sh*t out. Not that the Tories will be any better mind.

any reason not to vote LibDem? gotta be better than a bunch of eton cronies running the show

 

[oni]

concerned parentsâ„¢ all over Britain will be happy that this hippy professor can no longer poison their childrens' minds with...........reasoned argument.

:bravo:


somone uk,

I think it is time you stopped reading stuff from http://www.talktofrank.com/............................................ :whistle: :smack:

 

[oni]

concerned parentsâ„¢ all over Britain will be happy that this hippy professor can no longer poison their childrens' minds with...........reasoned argument.

:bravo:


somone uk,

I think it is time you stopped reading stuff from http://www.talktofrank.com/............................................ :whistle: :smack:

 

[somone uk]

concerned parentsâ„¢ all over Britain will be happy that this hippy professor can no longer poison their childrens' minds with...........reasoned argument.

:bravo:


somone uk,

I think it is time you stopped reading stuff from http://www.talktofrank.com/............................................ :whistle: :smack:

actually i have worked for mental illness charities and seen first hand the effects of these drugs and frank isn't lying
also talking about finasteride sides at least they go once you stop taking the drug

now i hate jacqi smith as much as everyone else, i think her ideas such as spying on everyone's emails is plain wrong
but i think maybe professor nutt being 1 person who is speaking contrary to the findings of lots of other scientists
as a matter of fact most drugs that are illegal are due to mental health reasons rather than physical harm
Analgesics are illegal to take without prescription (this covers morphine, heroin etc) because if someone becomes addicted to them they lose their pain killing benefit, i am pretty sure i'd want morphine to work if a lose my arm in a car accident and also cause mountains of pain for some people trying to withdraw from it
sedatives are illegal without prescription because they are used as date rape

 

[oni]

actually i have worked for mental illness charities and seen first hand the effects of these drugs and frank isn't lying

Show me the proven scientific evidence please!

LSD can cause "permanent" hallucinations, years and years after taking the drug

Show me the proven scientific evidence please!

MDMA can cause hallucinations

This is very rare with pure MDMA! When is the last time have you seen that being sold on the street!!! and not cut with god knows what else!

 

[The Gardener]

Why can't people just be responsible for what they choose to do or not do? Why do citizens need to pay a bunch of overcompensated government parasites to be their designated nannies? It's a racket.

It reminds me of a vacation I took at Yosemite Park... was on top of the El Capitan rock face, if my memory serves me correctly, and there was a big warning sign at the edge of the cliff warning people not to walk off of the edge because it could result in bodily injury or death. I laughed my *** off... as a citizenry, have we become such morons that we need to be reminded of such? Or, was the sign placed there because somebody did something stupid, got hurt, and probably sued the park and the sign was placed there for legal "cover your arse" purposes. Lawyers... ugh.. more parasites.

Some might argue... but, without the government looking over our shoulder, folks could hurt themselves with drugs or other stupid things, and then society would be responsible for paying for the aftermath, so, its better to avoid these costs by making these things illegal. Poppycock! Maybe if society STOPPED paying for the bad results of people who made poor choices, then people would act more responsibly.

And, I don't doubt that at the mental clinic referenced above there might be some people who have suffered mentally from drug use... but I also would wager a bet that for every ONE of those people, I could walk you over to the nearest AA meeting and show you a FEW HUNDRED folks who have had their lives ruined by alcohol.

 

[Old Baldy]

Marijuana should probably be legalized but not meth. IMHO.

I've said this before, I drink whiskey now and then and have an impossible time telling someone they can't smoke marijuana.

But meth. HELL NO!!!

 

[Prince V]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009 ... rown-drugs

 

[DrakeWeAreLEAVING!]

:box:

 

[somone uk]

actually i have worked for mental illness charities and seen first hand the effects of these drugs and frank isn't lying

Show me the proven scientific evidence please!

you are asking me for proven scientific evidence of franks A-Z of drugs,
list 3 drugs and I'll show you evidence of that because i cbas getting papers on every drug illegally sold

LSD can cause "permanent" hallucinations, years and years after taking the drug

Show me the proven scientific evidence please!

"In most cases (lsd), the psychosis-like reaction is of short duration, but in other cases it may be chronic." Strassman 1984

and the "evidence" that only 1 in 40,000 people get schizophrenia is bollocks

this is members of the Swedish army and the bottom number is how many times they used cannabis
this research doesn't even cover the amount a regular user will smoke or anywhere near that

 

[oni]

"In most cases (lsd), the psychosis-like reaction is of short duration, but in other cases it may be chronic." Strassman 1984

So now it is "in other cases it may be chronic" and not "permanent"........................................make your mind up!

So how come cases of schizophrenia have not gone through the roof in the UK, since the rise in cannabis usage and lets not forget "killer skunk". :uglylol:

somone uk, are you Debra Bell? or are you on the Daily Hate (Mail) payroll................. :laugh:

 

[cuebald]

Thing is though, lots of people with Schizophrenia use cannabis to try and alleviate their symptoms. Likewise, people with the disease are much more prone to abuse Benzo's like Diazepam, alprazolam, and the opiates.
This doesn't mean that these drugs cause Schizophrenia.

Likewise with people who have depression - they are likely to use illegal drugs to self-medicate. This will show up as "the higher number of people who use a certain drug, the more likely they are to have depression" as in the study above.
It is flawed.

"Killer Skunk" and all of this cannabis madness is just Middle England, Daily Mail hysteria. 21st Century Reefer Madness.
The fact that the Government listens to this tabloid toss about drugs over that of a scientist worries me far more than any supposed damage Cannabis can do.

I am an adult, I should be able to ingest whatever I like, without fear of an overbearing, totalitarian Government stepping in thinking they know what's best for me.
People who want to stop me doing something to my own body in my own home, are no better than the jackbooted thugs of yore. Any government that makes growing a certain species of PLANT illegal has overstepped its boundaries. I wonder how this goes down in America - a land supposedly valued for its freedom. The people can't be that free if the Government stops them from growing a certain plant genus, can they?

The problem is that there are too many busybodies employed in Government these days - Government is too big, and all of these people need something to do.
This is also why we see a massive increase in small, petty laws being rigorously enforced - and also why we're seeing massive but useless traffic calming and one-way systems being implemented.

We need a massive public sector cut. The government should be focused on running the country competently, and providing basic services (and this shower of sh*t can't even do that right).
Anything else is just useless bloat. I'd say the current Labour government needs to be cut by 50% at least - scrap most of the new "initiatives" (most of which have failed, like ethnic outreach programmes)

 

[somone uk]

"In most cases (lsd), the psychosis-like reaction is of short duration, but in other cases it may be chronic." Strassman 1984

So now it is "in other cases it may be chronic" and not "permanent"........................................make your mind up!

chronic= "being long-lasting and recurrent or characterized by long suffering; "chronic indigestion"; "a chronic shortage of funds"; "a chronic invalid""
also i said CAN cause not WILL cause

So how come cases of schizophrenia have not gone through the roof in the UK, since the rise in cannabis usage and lets not forget "killer skunk". :uglylol:

i haven't seen any comparative study so i can't conclude to if it has gone up or not but there are over 250,000 cases in the uk

somone uk, are you Debra Bell? or are you on the Daily Hate (Mail) payroll................. :laugh:

i have my personal reasons to hate cannabis.....

 

[DrakeWeAreLEAVING!]

 

[oni]

[quote="somone uk":15vvcr26]

somone uk, are you Debra Bell? or are you on the Daily Hate (Mail) payroll................. :laugh:

i have my personal reasons to hate cannabis.....

so its personal rather than rational?[/quote:15vvcr26]


Bingo!