PROPECIA and minoxidil used at same time.

[Guest]

This is a question for the experts.. Something thats been on my mind.

Lets say a person is taking Propecia.. as per normal.

Now lets say he has receded temples.

Lets say the Propecia WOULD of grown the temples back within say 6 months. So this is looking into the future.

Now lets say, the person, instead of waiting for the Propecia to regrow the temples, decided to use minoxidil.

Lets say the minoxidil did grow back those temples.

At 6 months time, does the Propecia still have any effect on those temple hairs? Or has it forfeitted its growing rights to minoxidil?

If you stopped minoxidil, will Propecia hang onto alot of the hairs, since it was going to grow them anyway?

 

[Guest]

At 6 months time, does the Propecia still have any effect on those temple hairs? Or has it forfeitted its growing rights to minoxidil?

Propecia can still have an effect. It works in a totally different way than minoxidil does. There is no forfeiting. They say to combine them because they work in different ways for maximum growth.

If you stopped minoxidil, will Propecia hang onto alot of the hairs, since it was going to grow them anyway?

Unfortunately, no. Since the two products use different processes to regrow hair, hair regrown and maintained by Propecia will fall out if Propecia is stopped. Hair regrown and maintained by minoxidil will also fall out. Propecia will not maintain minoxidil hair or vice versa.

 

[Guest]

But if Propecia is having an effect.

Surely those effects aren't lost, just because minoxidil is stopped?

Doesn't the follicle say "ok no more minoxidil.. lucky we had Propecia to help us on the other side"

It doesn't seem right that you will lose the hair if you stop minoxidil.. its as if Propecia had no affect at all?

Wouldnt Propecia ALSO be growing the same temple hair that minoxidil is growing? Like a double bam? If anything, I thought the hair would simply become finer, but not fall out?

 

[H2O]

Think of it this way...

Minoxidil is in the class of treatments called "Potassium Channel Openers". minoxidil is somewhat of a mystery as to how exactly it stimulates growth, however it has been clinically proven that drugs which open Potassium Channels seem to stimulate hair growth. Increased bloodflow and other strong chemical signaling to the follicle to grow is one conjecture (think of it as a shot of adrenalin to the hair follicle as an analogy...a chemical cheerleader) It is not the same as a DHT inhibitor like Propecia, and does not work to stop the causes of hair loss - only to simulate growth IN SPITE of the DHT attack.

Propecia works in a completely different way than minoxidil. Put simply, it prevents the conversion of Testosterone to DHT. DHT attaches itself to receptor sites on the hair follicle and begins to treat the follicle as a foreign object in the body. During this time, the follicle, under the attack of DHT, begins to miniaturize with every growth cycle, until after several years, it simply is too small and short to be seen.

What has been shown in clinical trials is that people using minoxidil. do have some renewed growth, HOWEVER, those same people continue to progress with their hairloss.

In other words, as another gruesome analogy, suppose some hair follicles that were shot by the "bullets" of DHT and barely alive are "bleeding" on the ground. minoxidil comes along and gives them a shot of adrenalin and convinces them like a drill sergeant to "get up and make hair !!" Now, of course these poor "bleeding", DHT-bullet-ridden hair follicles are in pretty bad shape when they are convinced by minoxidil. to make a final stand and make some hair. Therefore they stand up and start making hair again at the request and encouragement of minoxidil, but they don't do it very well as they were just "on the ground" dying and are injured.

Further, minoxidil does nothing to prevent the DHT snipers from continuing to shoot the follicles with DHT "bullets". So the poor follicles make some pretty weak hair (vellus hair) and really never have a chance to regain strength and health. After a while, even the "encouragement" and "adrenalin shots" of minoxidil. are not enough to keep the follicle on its feet as the DHT "bullets" kill the follicle once and for all.

Now if you take Propecia...think of Propecia as the counter-sniper unit of the anti-hairloss army. Propecia (or dutasteride, etc) attacks the DHT snipers and greatly reduces the amount of DHT "bullets" fired at the follicle. So, the combination of the two is a very potent duo.

If you just use Propecia, standing hairs will mostly keep standing because they're not being shot at as much, but less will get up that have already fallen to the ground because they don't have the strength to save themselves, even if the shooting is stopped.

If you use just minoxidil., sure you'll get some injured and fallen follicles to weakly rejoin the fight but they'll continue to be riddled by DHT bullets and so will many times be wispy, vellus hairs.

The combination of the two is a powerful attack as explained above, as both help the fight in their own unique way.

So to answer your question, follicles that become reliant and addicted to the cheerleading and "adrenalin shots" of minoxidil are going to fall to the ground when minoxidil leaves the battlefield. Those follicles are "addicted" to what minoxidil provides and don't give a damn if Propecia comes along to suppress fire. They need their fix or they're gonna fall to the ground....

ok...now minoxidil has gone from a cheerleader...to a drill sergeant...to a drug dealer . Sorry for mixing metaphors, but perhaps you understand why one treatment cannot "take over" where the other left off. Likewise, if you stop Propecia and the DHT snipers commence shooting full force, the minoxidil might keep them standing for a bit longer but they continue to get bullet ridden and weaker until they will eventually die as well.

These analogies are not perfect, but sometimes it's hard to imagine and understand why Propecia cannot keep minoxidil hair and visa versa. Hopefully my little grade school, crude analogy helped a bit in that regard...

 

[Guest]

H20 that was a very amusing analogy hehe.

Basically all the original poster needs to know is that the drugs regrow hair in two different ways with two different mechanisms. One cannot maintain the hair of the other. Both must be used continuously.

 

[H2O]

hehe...yeah...killing time on a wednesday And I didn't even smoke anything for inspiration !! Seriously Force, just listen to Jayman and don't take my little bedtime story too seriously. It's a loose analogy with a ton of holes...kinda like a hollywood blockbuster...hummm....I better secure the movie rights for this one....and I'll call it "Dye-Hard"

 

[Guest]

hehe...yeah...killing time on a wednesday And I didn't even smoke anything for inspiration !! Seriously Force, just listen to Jayman and don't take my little bedtime story too seriously. It's a loose analogy with a ton of holes...kinda like a hollywood blockbuster...hummm....I better secure the movie rights for this one....and I'll call it "Dye-Hard"

haha you should see my fish analogy:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... ish#256209

 

[vidareal]

Think of it this way...

.........

These analogies are not perfect, but sometimes it's hard to imagine and understand why Propecia cannot keep minoxidil hair and visa versa. Hopefully my little grade school, crude analogy helped a bit in that regard...

That was a great Post. Should be a sticky.

 

[H2O]

imagine all your hairs are fish...

here's all you have to remember- fish=toxic waste. dht=water

er no....

:lol: That's Awsome...JayMan you gotta sand me some of that for christmas...smokin' that I'm sure I could figure out the final solution to hairloss and solve the world hunger problem all in one session !! Haha...love it !!

 

[H2O]

Think of it this way...

.........

These analogies are not perfect, but sometimes it's hard to imagine and understand why Propecia cannot keep minoxidil hair and visa versa. Hopefully my little grade school, crude analogy helped a bit in that regard...

That was a great Post. Should be a sticky.

hehe...thanks...it needs to be refined a bit but I'm glad it helped visualize things a bit better...cheers

 

[Far Too Young]

All the analogies aside, it still seems that follicles that aren't being tagged by DHT for destruction or have had a reduction in DHT influence after the onset of miniaturization due to the influence of finasteride would be far more susceptible to the positive effects of minoxidil. I wouldn't say that "minoxidil hairs" will remain after the discontinuation of minoxidil. But couldn't the finasteride's DHT lowering effects allow for more miniaturized follicles to repond to minoxidil? I don't think the two are exclusive.

As a clarification, I am not implying a synergistic reaction. This is simply a suggestion that the mechanisms (which are completely different) will work together for heightened results, not that some single chemical mechanism is induced or increased by their coupling (which would indeed be a synergistic effect).

 

[H2O]

Yes...this is what we've all been saying. The original question was if finasteride could "keep" minoxidil hairs and vica versa. Because their different mechanisms of action, together they produce a more "potent" result than either by themselves....at least as a general rule. You must, of course, be a "responder" to both mechanisms of treatment for this to be true...

 

[sfperc]

What's the verdict on using minoxidil only once a day, at bedtime, and taking Propecia in the morning? I just can't stand putting minoxidil in my hair in the morning as it clumps the hair together and looks greasy to me. Is this combination still effective?

 

[holyhair]

yes it will give effect.
but that is an open question with 2 answers..will it give the effect you want?
i guess it depens on your current state how you respond etc etc

my regimen is propecia in the morning minoxidil at night 1hour before bed.

if it fits in your daily life then go for it!