Proscar dosage question

[Iggy]

I jut got my proscar today and the amount it calls for me to take is 1 pill (5 mg) a day. I've been reading other posts and most of the other people here take 1.25 mg a day. MYquestion is why do you guys do that and not take the 5 mg? Is it just to save money? My healthcare plan covers proscar 100% so I'm not worried about that. Or is there some other reason such as maybe you don't want to take such a strong dosage of it? Also won't taking 1.25mg of proscar compared to 5mg lessen the
effectiveness of it?

Waiting for your answers before I sign my life away to this stuff... :cry:

 

[asolof]

Proscar (finasteride 5mg) is marketed by Merk for treatment of benign prostatic hypertrophy. The dose for that is 5mg daily.

Propecia (finasteride 1mg) is marketed by Merk for treatment of male pattern baldness. The dose for that is 1mg daily.

The price for the 5mg Proscar is similar to that of the 1mg Propecia so people get the proscar and cut it up to save money.

Insurances usually cover the treatment of benign prostatic hypertrophy, but not male pattern baldness so that they will frequently cover the cost of proscar, but not propecia.

 

[asolof]

BTW,

Yes, the frequency of side effects of 1mg finasteride daily is less than the frequency of side effects of 5mg finasteride daily. The extra 4mg daily will not improve its' effect on male pattern baldness.

 

[Bryan]

I think the occurrence of side-effects (and DESIRED effects, for that matter) is proportional to DHT reduction, in which case Proscar should be only slightly worse than Propecia.

Bryan

 

[socks]

I think the occurrence of side-effects (and DESIRED effects, for that matter) is proportional to DHT reduction, in which case Proscar should be only slightly worse than Propecia.

Very interesting thought. If all Finasteride does is inhibit the type 2 5ar enzyme and the difference between type 2 5ar inhibition at 1mg is very similar to that at 5mg it would stand to reason the side-effects should be nearly the same.

Does anyone know the average reduction of DHT in the body on 5mg Proscar VS 1mg Propecia?

 

[Molecular Help]

So in that case, why the difference in dosage for the different intended uses? I know I've read somewhere (sorry can't remember but I imagine it was on here) that 1mg was found to be the best medium between effective dht inhibition and side effects. It made sense to assume that the side effects were better tolerated for BPH because most men taking it were older and less sexual but wanted maximum results. Perhaps the side effects become greater after a certain dose even though the effect on hair loss isn't much better? Would seem to be the case here.

MH

 

[socks]

Yet another good point Molecular Help!

Goddamn yall are making my head hurt :wink:

 

[Molecular Help]

Here's the piece of info I was thinking about from the propecia trials:

Early dose ranging hair loss studies showed that much smaller dosages, such as 0.5 mg and even less, inhibited DHT on average almost as well as much higher dosages, such as 5 mg. One 6-month study comparing a placebo group, which lost hair, to users taking differing dosages of finasteride found that 0.2 mg of finasteride increased hair counts about 81% as much as 1 mg when compared to the placebo. Similarly, 1 mg increased hair counts 82% as much as a full 5 mg compared to placebo. The tiny 0.2 mg dosage did about 66% as well at regrowth and retention as 5 mg. Accordingly, the 1 mg dosage was probably a compromise designed to be high enough to pick up those who may not respond as well to the lower dosages, but low enough to minimize side effects.


Makes sense. Plus the 1mg at 82% of the 5mg for retention and regrowth is nothing to scoff at. That's a sizable difference, it's just not directly proportional to the dose. Not nearly. If side effects as well occured 18% more that's not just a slight increase, that's a lot more guys on message boards bitching about b**ch tits and limp dicks. Especially if you consider how many guys bought propecia.

MH

 

[Bryan]

So in that case, why the difference in dosage for the different intended uses?

Oh...it's probably just a tendency on the part of all drug companies to be as conservative as possible. For a simple cosmetic problem like hairloss, Merck is probably more concerned with using a minimally effective dose than for a more important medical condition like BPH.

I know I've read somewhere (sorry can't remember but I imagine it was on here) that 1mg was found to be the best medium between effective dht inhibition and side effects. It made sense to assume that the side effects were better tolerated for BPH because most men taking it were older and less sexual but wanted maximum results.

Possibly, but there's not THAT much difference between the two doses, in either side effects or DESIRED effects.

Perhaps the side effects become greater after a certain dose even though the effect on hair loss isn't much better? Would seem to be the case here.

Look, in early testing of the drug, human volunteers have taken as much as 50 mg/day of finasteride for several months with no problems! There just isn't that much difference, once you get to that area where the dose-response curve is fairly "flat".

Bryan

 

[Rage]

A bit of (unless) information - for toxic levels of finasteride, you have to eat around 2000 tablets.

 

[socks]

1 mg increased hair counts 82% as much as a full 5 mg compared to placebo.

Bryan Writes:

I think the occurrence of side-effects (and DESIRED effects, for that matter) is proportional to DHT reduction, in which case Proscar should be only slightly worse than Propecia.

Ok, first I'm no math wiz Second, I'm just thinking out loud here

But if the positive side-effect of hair counts is increased by 18% with 5mg of Finasteride VS 1mg of Finasteride shouldnt the side-effects increase in proportion?

If you decrease the dosage from 1mg to .2mg shouldnt the side effects decrease by 34%?

It seems like Merck just found that "sweet" spot that is a good compromise between positive/negative side effects for a cosmetic drug.

Look, in early testing of the drug, human volunteers have taken as much as 50 mg/day of finasteride for several months with no problems! There just isn't that much difference, once you get to that area where the dose-response curve is fairly "flat".

Well, what is the "flat" dosage in where there is no more positive benefit? Perhaps that is where the side effects level off as well.


I dunno if I'm even making sense at this point

 

[Molecular Help]

So in that case, why the difference in dosage for the different intended uses?

Oh...it's probably just a tendency on the part of all drug companies to be as conservative as possible. For a simple cosmetic problem like hairloss, Merck is probably more concerned with using a minimally effective dose than for a more important medical condition like BPH.

[quote="Molecular Help":4dd7e]I know I've read somewhere (sorry can't remember but I imagine it was on here) that 1mg was found to be the best medium between effective dht inhibition and side effects. It made sense to assume that the side effects were better tolerated for BPH because most men taking it were older and less sexual but wanted maximum results.

Possibly, but there's not THAT much difference between the two doses, in either side effects or DESIRED effects.

Perhaps the side effects become greater after a certain dose even though the effect on hair loss isn't much better? Would seem to be the case here.

Look, in early testing of the drug, human volunteers have taken as much as 50 mg/day of finasteride for several months with no problems! There just isn't that much difference, once you get to that area where the dose-response curve is fairly "flat".

Bryan[/quote:4dd7e]

Let me just say that I'm totally speculating based on information available to all. Bryan has a lot more knowledge in this field.

Anyways, I believe that merck did indeed try to find the balance between effective dht inhibition for hair loss and side effects and chose 1mg. It didn't have anything to do with trying to conserve finasteride for more serious medical problems, all about profit. Sexual sides remain the biggest impediment to propecia sales. Let's say the side effects and dht inhibition are exactly equal. If the dht is reduced by 18% more in the 5mg dose that's also going to be 18% more people complaining about sexual side effects. That's significant when you consider how many men bought propecia. And 18% greater dht inhibition is nothing to scoff at! I don't know why it's said that micro dosing is "nearly as good" ... 66% at .2mg is SIGNFICANTLY less than 82% at 1mg for regrowth and retention. I realize the curve becomes flatter as the dose increases, but I think we're downplaying the difference here.

MH