Proscar is NOT better than Propecia

[Pondle]

There have been a few recent discussions about Proscar's superiority to Propecia. If you look at the 6 month data, Proscar does indeed seem to grow about 23% more hair. But I've been looking again at the data, and it seems like Proscar just promotes a faster response.

The 6 month Propecia data comes from the Merck dose ranging study.
The 6 month Proscar data comes from the GSK Phase II Avodart hair loss trial.
The 12 month Propecia data comes from the Merck 5yr study.
The 12 month Proscar data comes from the Merck dose ranging study.

 

[RaginDemon]

they are both finasteride with different dosage. What's so hard to understand?

 

[Bryan]

Pondle, you're a man after my own heart!

 

[CCS]

There have been a few recent discussions about Proscar's superiority to Propecia. If you look at the 6 month data, Proscar does indeed seem to grow about 23% more hair. But I've been looking again at the data, and it seems like Proscar just promotes a faster response.

The 6 month Propecia data comes from the Merck dose ranging study.
The 6 month Proscar data comes from the GSK Phase II Avodart hair loss trial.
The 12 month Propecia data comes from the Merck 5yr study.
The 12 month Proscar data comes from the Merck dose ranging study.

where did you get that?

 

[CCS]

I still find it odd that reducing androgens more would not have at least marginally better results. I do think topical spironolactone combined with propecia should be better than dutasteride, though.

 

[phish]

i think nizoral 2 times a week with propecia would be better then dutasteride. someone on the big 3 def will have a better hair count in a year then sum1 only on dutasteride. key is to hit male pattern baldness from all dif angles, that chart is interesting to say the least.

 

[Pondle]

where did you get that?

I drew the chart from the studies I mentioned.

Merck dose ranging study...

Propecia 5yr trial...

Phase II Avodart trial...

 

[CCS]

I would point out that dutasteride regrew more hairs above baseline in 6 months than propecia ever did. But that could be the timing of the study. hair counts usually increase and fall in cycle during the year. that is why placebo is needed. Propecia did not reach 140 above baseline until 2 years later, whereas 2.5mg/day of dutasteride got there in 6 months, and past that by 9 months.

 

[Pondle]

I would point out that dutasteride regrew more hairs above baseline in 6 months than propecia ever did. But that could be the timing of the study. hair counts usually increase and fall in cycle during the year. that is why placebo is needed. Propecia did not reach 140 above baseline until 2 years later, whereas 2.5mg/day of dutasteride got there in 6 months, and past that by 9 months.

Yeah, I wasn't interested in the dutasteride comparison for this post... I just wanted to find out whether Proscar genuinely outperformed Propecia beyond 6 months, given the very slight difference in DHT reduction.

dutasteride is interesting though... it would be wonderful to see a longer term trial, and know what the maximum regrowth potential of the drug is.

 

[CHL24]

CCS - does that mean you dont reach peak hair count with propecia until 24 months ? I thought it was 12 months ?

 

[Pondle]

CCS - does that mean you dont reach peak hair count with propecia until 24 months ? I thought it was 12 months ?

The peak above baseline is reached at 12 months and more or less maintained until 24 months. After that, the average hair count falls, although this could be due to non-responders in the treatment group. What's more, the difference from placebo continues to widen, seemingly for as long as you take the drug. Check out the 5yr study graph above.

 

[phish]

i think from reading some stories on here people seem to gain after 12 months all the way up to 2 years. i really think tho the better propecia works for you in the first 6 months the better it will work at maintaing your hair for 5 years. so for example those that dont gain much in the first 6 months will likely have a better chance of going below baseline in the long run. people respond diferently to drugs cuz we are all made up of different genetics.

 

[Bryan]

I would point out that dutasteride regrew more hairs above baseline in 6 months than propecia ever did. But that could be the timing of the study. hair counts usually increase and fall in cycle during the year. that is why placebo is needed. Propecia did not reach 140 above baseline until 2 years later, whereas 2.5mg/day of dutasteride got there in 6 months, and past that by 9 months.

Yeah, I wasn't interested in the dutasteride comparison for this post... I just wanted to find out whether Proscar genuinely outperformed Propecia beyond 6 months, given the very slight difference in DHT reduction.

dutasteride is interesting though... it would be wonderful to see a longer term trial, and know what the maximum regrowth potential of the drug is.

Well, I hope you do remember that 1-year dutasteride trial with the 17 pairs of identical twins. Not very many test subjects, but the haircount improvement over placebo after a year was actually slightly LESS than what they got in the Propecia trial.

 

[CCS]

Well, I hope you do remember that 1-year dutasteride trial with the 17 pairs of identical twins. Not very many test subjects, but the haircount improvement over placebo after a year was actually slightly LESS than what they got in the Propecia trial.

thanks for the info. Bryan, would you please elaborate on that? I've never heard of the study.

 

[youngbaldie]

Well, I hope you do remember that 1-year dutasteride trial with the 17 pairs of identical twins. Not very many test subjects, but the haircount improvement over placebo after a year was actually slightly LESS than what they got in the Propecia trial.

thanks for the info. Bryan, would you please elaborate on that? I've never heard of the study.

Here is the study he is talking about I think.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/fu ... 07.00297.x

 

[Bryan]

Yes, that's the one.

 

[CCS]

the study does not compare dutasteride to proscar, or state the dose. Also, the 6 month group did very poorly compared to proscar, so I don't think teh study predicts the 1 year dutasteride results

 

[Bryan]

It does state the dose. It was 0.5 mg/day.

 

[CCS]

edit

 

[CCS]

At month 6,
the summary of the hair count data indicated that there was an average of 11 fewer hairs in the placebo-treated group vs. 6.8 more hairs in the dutasteride-treated subjects(Table 1). In 12 sets of twins, the mean hair count reached statistical significance indicating 19.8 more hairs in the dutasteride-treated subjects than in the placebo-treated subjects. Compliance was 94% with placebo and 99% with dutasteride. Because of technical problems related to the hair count evaluation, hair count data were uninterpretable in five sets of twins.

Month 12
At month 12, there were 3.8 fewer hairs in the placebo-treated vs. 16.5 more hairs in the dutasteride-treated subjects. In 11 sets of twins, the mean hair count indicated 22.2 more hairs in the dutasteride-treated subjects than in the placebo-treated subjects. However, this did not achieve statistical significance (P = 0.14) because of the large variability and the technical problems encountered with five sets of twins at months 6 and 12.