Question Regarding Saw Palmetto Mechanism Of Action.

[Losingmyhair]

I read many theories of how SP works in combating male pattern baldness. A common one is Saw Palmetto being a dht inhibitor similar to Finasteride. I read that claim is false, that SP prevents the binding of DHT to androgen receptors in the prostate. My question is has Saw Palmetto been proven to prevent the binding of DHT to androgen receptors in the scalp? There are alot of so called DHT blockers such as saw palmetto, beta sitosterol, pygeum africanum, etc... Have any of these DHT blockers been proven to actually work? What is your opinion?

 

[Nashville Hairline]

None of them have been proven to work and nobody has studied their mechanism either, sorry. There's only anecdotal evidence out there as to their worth, much like most alternative remedies.

 

[Innermind]

actually there have been a few studies done, but they are very limited and i do not know where they are but if i find them again I will post the link. Basically it was found that 1500 mg(i think this was the number) of saw palmetto extract lowers serum DHT by 33%, as opposed to finesteride which lowers serum DHT by 70%. Based on this information, I would say it works to some limited degree, but would not be enough for some one with severe or moderate hairloss. Someone with mild hairloss, and in conjunction with other meds(miox, nizoral) i believe it would be somewhat effective.

But yes, the mech is not known, and no one is going to spend money to study it.

 

[Bryan]

Basically it was found that 1500 mg(i think this was the number) of saw palmetto extract lowers serum DHT by 33%, as opposed to finesteride which lowers serum DHT by 70%.

I've never heard of saw palmetto lowering serum DHT by any amount at all. In fact, Drs. Sawaya and Shapiro made reference to that in their excellent review article "Unapproved Treatments for Male Pattern Baldness" a few years ago. They said that IF saw palmetto really does help balding, it must be by some mechanism other than lowering DHT, since it was shown not to do that in some study they cited.

 

[vauxall]

I think you are referring to this one:

Urology. 2001 May;57(5):999-1005. Links
Tissue effects of saw palmetto and finasteride: use of biopsy cores for in situ quantification of prostatic androgens.Marks LS, Hess DL, Dorey FJ, Luz Macairan M, Cruz Santos PB, Tyler VE.
Urological Sciences Research Foundation, Culver City, California, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the effects of a saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) compared with finasteride on prostatic tissue androgen levels and to evaluate needle biopsies as a source of tissue for such determinations. METHODS: Prostate levels of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were measured on 5 to 10-mg biopsy specimens (18-gauge needle cores) in three groups of men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia: 15 men receiving chronic finasteride therapy versus 7 untreated controls; 4 men undergoing prostate adenomectomy to determine sampling variability (10 specimens each); and 40 men participating in a 6-month randomized trial of SPHB versus placebo, before and after treatment. RESULTS: Prostatic tissue DHT levels were found to be several times higher than the levels of testosterone (5.01 versus 1.51 ng/g), that ratio becoming reversed (1.05 versus 3.63 ng/g) with chronic finasteride therapy. The finasteride effect was statistically significant for both androgens (P <0.01), and little overlap of individual values between finasteride-treated and control patients was seen. In the randomized trial, tissue DHT levels were reduced by 32% from 6.49 to 4.40 ng/g in the SPHB group (P <0.005), with no significant change in the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: For control versus finasteride-treated men, the tissue androgen values obtained with needle biopsy specimens were similar-both for absolute values and the percentage of change-to those previously reported using surgically excised volumes of prostatic tissue. The quantification of prostatic androgens by assay of needle biopsies is thus feasible and offers the possibility of serial studies in individual patients. The SPHB-induced suppression of prostatic DHT levels, modest but significant in a randomized trial, lends an element of support to the hypothesis that inhibition of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase is a mechanism of action of this substance.

PMID: 11337315 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

My only question is: would that make my hair regrow?

 

[Jokerman]

This is purely anecdotal of course, but I had a friend who said he tried saw palmetto for a while and it had a negative effect on his libido.

It seems that would make the idea of saw palmetto being a dht inhibitor plausible, perhaps?

It had zero impact on his hairloss, but frankly, his male pattern baldness was really bad for a 22 year old and it may just have been too aggressive for SP to have any effect on him.

 

[mj9]

I've tried saw palmetto and it didnt do anything for me - one whole year wasted, hair continued to get worse...

 

[Losingmyhair]

I guess the mechanism of action & claims are not proven yet since there are alot of contradictions.

 

[hairrific]

I think you are referring to this one:

Urology. 2001 May;57(5):999-1005. Links
Tissue effects of saw palmetto and finasteride: use of biopsy cores for in situ quantification of prostatic androgens.Marks LS, Hess DL, Dorey FJ, Luz Macairan M, Cruz Santos PB, Tyler VE.
Urological Sciences Research Foundation, Culver City, California, USA.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the effects of a saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB) compared with finasteride on prostatic tissue androgen levels and to evaluate needle biopsies as a source of tissue for such determinations. METHODS: Prostate levels of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) were measured on 5 to 10-mg biopsy specimens (18-gauge needle cores) in three groups of men with symptomatic benign prostatic hyperplasia: 15 men receiving chronic finasteride therapy versus 7 untreated controls; 4 men undergoing prostate adenomectomy to determine sampling variability (10 specimens each); and 40 men participating in a 6-month randomized trial of SPHB versus placebo, before and after treatment. RESULTS: Prostatic tissue DHT levels were found to be several times higher than the levels of testosterone (5.01 versus 1.51 ng/g), that ratio becoming reversed (1.05 versus 3.63 ng/g) with chronic finasteride therapy. The finasteride effect was statistically significant for both androgens (P <0.01), and little overlap of individual values between finasteride-treated and control patients was seen. In the randomized trial, tissue DHT levels were reduced by 32% from 6.49 to 4.40 ng/g in the SPHB group (P <0.005), with no significant change in the placebo group. CONCLUSIONS: For control versus finasteride-treated men, the tissue androgen values obtained with needle biopsy specimens were similar-both for absolute values and the percentage of change-to those previously reported using surgically excised volumes of prostatic tissue. The quantification of prostatic androgens by assay of needle biopsies is thus feasible and offers the possibility of serial studies in individual patients. The SPHB-induced suppression of prostatic DHT levels, modest but significant in a randomized trial, lends an element of support to the hypothesis that inhibition of the enzyme 5-alpha reductase is a mechanism of action of this substance.

PMID: 11337315 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

My only question is: would that make my hair regrow?

OK, if 1500mg reduces DHT by 30% what would, say, 3000mg do? What if you increased the dosage in the study would the results be better?

This study leaves me with more questions. "A saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB)" LOL! From this I am to draw solid conclusions! What is the added ingredient(s) (blend)?

I am probably not reading this elaborate scientific study correctly or maybe I am admitting not smart enough to understand it so please someone help me out. How can dumb little me sort out what this " saw palmetto herbal blend (SPHB)" is and the milligrams or dosage of it was? And can I relate to that and obtain that from the health food store in a supplement?

 

[vauxall]

hairrific,

the study above only proves that Saw Palmetto can influence DHT levels but then there's no mention of Alopecia or hair loss.

 

[ali777]

I have tried SP for a short time. I experienced similar but somehow lesser side effects as finastride, eg lower libido and "tingling" in my testicles.

I'm not sure where, but I have read that SP can cause some severe side effects. So, even if you do try it, make sure you discontinue it as soon as you experience side effects.

 

[vauxall]

Incidentally, every time I have used Saw Palmetto (the first time 2000mg a day, now 350mg a day) I have noticed a sharp increase in libido and nocturnal erections in the first two weeks and then a decline of both later on. I still don't why this happens but it appers to be a recurrent pattern.

 

[Petchsky]

I've read that there are different ways people react to saw palmetto, some is low libido and some is a temporary increase, same with finasteride. All about our different physiologies, same with alcohol, some people can drink lots of it, and some are total lightweights. Maybe your body responds by increasing testosterone.

As SP gives similar side effects as propecia you would think that this is because it does the same thing. Maybe just be paranoid but I would like to see who funds the studies saying saw palmetto does nothing for hairloss, I have a snaking suspicion it's like propecia lite. Not as good, but can help some.

 

[Artas]

I am actually taking Saw Palmetto and I'm only 16 I have a full head of hair as well. Basically I cannot use Propecia, which is why I'm taking SP.

They are aprox 450mg (they wont be exactly)

I'm taking 2 capsules in the morning
and then 1 at night

My question is... because I'm young do you reckon SP could actually help?

 

[Fam_1st]

OK why are you taking SP and you would be you say taking finasteride if you were older but why if you have a full head of hair?? You're 16 and you could be messing up your natural growth rate and you said you have a full head of hair so why not since you have all your hair wait untill you're done maturing before you start something you don't need??

 

[scub]

i've been taking SP for about 1 month with no negative affects.. actually makes me feel more horny, but besides the point, it's suppose to be good for the prostate and keeping it "healthy" so if it helps with the hair then it's only an added bonus for me.. plus it's natural. if you keep reading into side-effects it's only going to fill your head with crap and make it a psychological thing.. hell, i bet if you read drinking water makes your penis smaller people will start swearing it made theirs smaller too.

it also depends what kind of SP you take,. it's been mentioned that 320mg, gelcaps (standardized extract) with 85-95% fatty acids is best.

its cheap (only about $5-9 for a bottle of 60 caps) and i take 1 a day in the AM as per the instructions.

 

[Artas]

OK why are you taking SP and you would be you say taking finasteride if you were older but why if you have a full head of hair?? You're 16 and you could be messing up your natural growth rate and you said you have a full head of hair so why not since you have all your hair wait untill you're done maturing before you start something you don't need??

Because the roots of my hair are very white at the roots and my hair is black (dyed) but It is still naturally very dark brown, I also have loads of body hair for my age which indicates more agressive hair loss and also at a young age, I wake up to find around 10 on my pillow and lose so many in the shower.

This is just kind of like a safety plan.

 

[scub]

OK why are you taking SP and you would be you say taking finasteride if you were older but why if you have a full head of hair?? You're 16 and you could be messing up your natural growth rate and you said you have a full head of hair so why not since you have all your hair wait untill you're done maturing before you start something you don't need??

Because the roots of my hair are very white at the roots and my hair is black (dyed) but It is still naturally very dark brown, I also have loads of body hair for my age which indicates more agressive hair loss and also at a young age, I wake up to find around 10 on my pillow and lose so many in the shower.

This is just kind of like a safety plan.

just remember, the average person loses about 100 hairs a day so don't worry too much about seeing a few hairs here-and-there.