Questions about making a topical Finasteride?

[travbedaman]

Okay So I have 5mg Fincar tabs and I have been taking .50 mg as an oral liquid (dissolved 10 tablets in 50ml of grain alcohol). I really can`t take the loss of libido and the slowly but steady fat gain I have been experiencing any longer, so I want to use my mix as a topical. I realize it might not be effective, but it`s either this or stop the finasteride completely.

What I really need to know is how much should I put on my scalp per day and does anyone know if I would need twice daily applications?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[CCS]

no one on this forum knows how much you need to put on your scalp each day, or what liquid will give you the best absorption without irritating your scalp.

here are some numbers, though.

0.2mg finasteride grows 80% as much hair as 1mg, which grows 80% as much as 5mg.

the dht produced in the hair follicle for the hair follicle is by far the biggest cause of hair loss. the contribution from dht in the blood is so small that when researchers transplanted a balding hair out of the scalp onto an arm, it went bald just as fast as the hairs it used to be next to. also when they used a drug that stopped dht production in just the sebum glands, it had no measureable effect on hair loss. side effects come from systemic absorption, and hair loss treatment comes from stopping the dht production in just the follicle. some topical finasteride experiments did treat facial hair on women, showing that it can be absorbed. but the right liquid to use is in question. i think minoxidil is your best bet. skin absorption occurs primarily though the pours, and sweating during applicaiton can push it back out some.

We don't know how long finasteride would linger in your scalp before getting washed away in the blood, but we know from graphs that once it is in the blood, it enters cells fast and shuts down 2/3 of the dht that will be shut down in just 1-2 hours. I've seen on graphs that cells absorb 2/3 of the finasteride theywill absorb that day in the first 1-2 hours. so if it is absorbing through your scalp over 2 hours, you are probably safe for the whole day, since dht levels take 3-4 days to rise 50%.

1.5-5% of minoxidil is absorbed through the scalp. so if 1mL of 5% minoxidil has 50mg of minoxidil, only 2.5 mg is absorbed, and the rest dries to a yellow powder that looks like dandruff.

the finasteride molecule is very similar looking to testosterone, which is how it competes for the 5ar2 enzyme.

30% of the testosterone in testosterone patches is absorbed through the skin in 23 hours. They are 12g patches, and about 4 goes in.

60% of finasteride is absorbed in your gut, so if you take a 5mg pill, only 3mg enters your blood.

If you weigh 80kg, and your scalp is 1cm deep, then the 200cm2 male pattern baldness area is 1/400th the volume of your body, which means a little goes a long way.

If you want your scalp to get the same benifit that 1mg/day orally would give, and if 5% were absorbed though your scalp, you would need 1mg / 400 * 0.6 / 0.05 in that order, which equals 0.03 mg per day, and your body would get 0.03mg * 0.05= 0.0015 mg per day of used finasteride. however, you might only absorb 1%, and maybe 2/3 will rinse away in the blood before getting to your follicles. this would mean you would need 0.03*5*3= 0.45 mg per day, which is 1 pill every 10 days. In case you don't grind the pill well enough, and some of it's unexposed volume has finasteride that is not dissolved, you might want to error on using 1 pill per week. If the 1% estimate is wrong, and actually 5% is aborbed, then your body will get 0.45/5= 0.09 mg per day. this is still less than 1/5 what you are taking now.

So try 1 pill per week, and if you get sides, you know you are getting enough and can reduce the dose, and if you don't get sides, you can raise the dose and see when you do and then cut back. And please tell us all what that dose is, since those of us without side effects can't do this experiment like you can.

people who get side effects from finasteride are an asset to the rest of us because they can tell us what dose is necessary to get enough finasteride in our bodies so we don't have to pay for dht tests.

 

[CCS]

people with finasteride side effects can buy generic over seas finasteride, take it orally to see if it is real, stop taking it until the sides go away, and then apply it topically untill they they get sides and know they are getting some through their skin, and then back down the dose till they go away, and then they have the ideal topical. their body gets a percent the concentration their scalp gets, so they can always find a dose that works for both hair and body. I WISH I had side effects from finasteride so i would not have so much guess work.

please tell us what topical dose gives you side effects.

 

[powersam]

yeah there are a few people on this forum who seem to be extremely sensitive to finasteride, and i was trying to persuade them to do exactly the same thing. havent had any takers yet but it would be so useful if we could find the best cream/oil etc for topical finasteride or dutasteride.

i'll bet we could persuade more than a few people on the forum to put in and buy the finasteride and anything else necessary if someone supersensitive was willing to give it a try.

 

[Rage]

I had side effects from 0.33mg/day topical finasteride.

I dissolved 10mg of finasteride into the standard 60ml of minoxidil, and use 2ml daily as per usual.

I might have to drop it down even further

 

[travbedaman]

people with finasteride side effects can buy generic over seas finasteride, take it orally to see if it is real, stop taking it until the sides go away, and then apply it topically untill they they get sides and know they are getting some through their skin, and then back down the dose till they go away, and then they have the ideal topical. their body gets a percent the concentration their scalp gets, so they can always find a dose that works for both hair and body. I WISH I had side effects from finasteride so i would not have so much guess work.

please tell us what topical dose gives you side effects.

Thanks for your help, wow good info! Okay so just put a few pills into the minoxidil, sounds easy enough.

However do you think that the left over binders and fillers from the fincar tabs would pose a problem in terms of clogging pores and whatnot?

I figured the solution that I currently have fincar disolved in the grain alcohol is basically 1mg per ml and maybe I could just use a syringe and draw up some filler free liquid and drop that into the minoxidil?

 

[Felk]

Keep us posted, oh topical finasteride pioneers...

 

[hair_tomorrow]

I had side effects from 0.33mg/day topical finasteride.

I dissolved 10mg of finasteride into the standard 60ml of minoxidil, and use 2ml daily as per usual.

I might have to drop it down even further

I've always heard the magic number to be a qnty of eight 5 mg proscar tabs per 60 ml minoxidil.

 

[H/B]

College, do you think there would be any benefit to using it topically along with internal?

 

[CCS]

travebedaman,

yes, the fillers might be a problem. that is why I recommend keeping the liquid and discarding the powder. Yes, a syringe would do the job. Just make sure you grind the pills well enough, since only finasteride exposed to the alcohol (example, in powdered pill) will get dissolved. the powder stays behind and must be discarded like you asked. finasteride inside any chunks, even small chunchs, will not be absorbed.

I don't think you need several proscar pills either. The fact is your follicles don't need much finasteride to get benifits. They might, however, need a consistent supply. All of the finasteride that makes it into your scalp should be absorbed systemically. Our goal is to use just enough lower follicle dht and not enough to lower body dht too much. I think the propylene glycol in minoxidil should slow down absorption enough to give the follicles more time to be exposed to it. some studies show topicals working, and others don't. gels seem to be the worst.

It is easy to take a low enough dose that you don't get side effects. The only question is whether it will stay in your scalp long enough to lower scalp DHT. I like minoxidil solutions because we know they won't cause hair loss, but we might need to use them 3 times a day or tincker with them somehow to keep the finasteride in our scalp more. this is still being researched by oldbaldy and I.