Reibun's Story

Reibun

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Sooo, over the past 9 months I have noticed that my hair has been increasingly getting thinner and receding. For the past 3 months, I believe my hair has gotten even worse and has also been unstoppably itchy. I went to the doctor several times and he doesn't believe I am balding at all. Several blood tests were done and the only notable odd results were a slightly higher than normal testosterone level. At this point I have started to use Nizoral and Saw Palmetto to begin my "fight" against the itchiness and the hair loss.

Assuming I really am losing my hair, I will be starting a regiment of Nizoral, Finasteride, and Minoxidil shortly. Thus why I am on this site, to seek advice on my current and future hair situation AND to offer help for others based on my present and future knowledge on this situation.

That being said, pleaaaase give me some input on my hair status in the several pictures I am about to post ( Such as if I need to start treatment and what Norwood # I am). And of course I will answer any questions you want to be answered about yourself or you are wondering. I hope this site has a active community, I have been looking for a good one to be apart of. Thanks!



Also, do/did any of you start to have increased itchiness when you started to lose hair before treatment?

Pictures below

==== EDIT ====

So here's an overlook on my past and background. Just info, not much else...

I've always had a "bigger forehead", and a slight receded forehead, but nothing major throughout my whole life. At the age of 14 I still had a fairly perfect hairline (NW1) . From 14-20 I didnt cut my hair once, it grew extremely long and I wore my hair in loose pony tails when i was 20. Anyways cut my hair, and have had it mid length to long from that point on ( cutting it every 9 months) then when I hit 21 me and my 6 year girl friend broke up. Needless to say, much stress followed for a long time. Also, me being a triple major, I am constantly tested with hard work. This year at the age of 22, 9 months ago, I started noticing hair issues, and for the past 3 months I have had a huge itchiness problem. Based on these photos I have noticed my hair has been decreasing over the years, but its been hard to tell seeing as I have always had my hair long.

Now more on what I think caused an increase in my hairloss. Most of my life I have been slim, from 14-20 I have weighed around (135-145 pounds) at the height of 6 foot, and did minimum exercise minus heavy cardio when I went outside and screwed around alot. At the age of 21 I started to do weight lifting and got into it seriously. For 9 months I worked hard and jumped up from 145 pounds to about 160 doing weight lifting. I was using Creatine, one scoop a workout, and 2-3 scoops of whey protein. Also, I was using caffine pills (400mg a day), green tea pills ( 2-3 a day ), gingko bilba pills (1 a day), daily vitamin, and fish oil. I also was eating a lot in general and a lot of protein (3000calories, 150-300grams of protein). I would work out 4-6 times a week, for about 30-60 mins a workout. Mild cardio, with most emphasis on the weights.
thoughout 14-21 I have had a semi crappy sleep cycle. Sleep whenever, wake up whenever, with half of my nights getting 4 to 5 hours of sleep, and the other half with 7 to 8 hours of sleep, rarely all nighters, but still they occurred. Then came my last year of school. I ended up getting 7-9 hours of sleep a night about 30% of the time, 1-3 hours of sleep about 50% of the nights, and no sleep at all 20% of the nights. That being said, I started believe sleep was pointless, and starting doing it rarely. Lastly, I ended up giving up on working out, and decided to put on weight so I could work out before next summer and get more gains, so I ended up reaching a max weight of 170.

All of this being said, I think last year is what accelerated things the most. I also think that working out so hard and then stopping also caused some negative effects on my hair.

Lastly, my father is thinning and receding, but not bald, he is at the age of 55. My mother has a higher hairline, but not balding. Mother's brothers are balding. One is slick bald (NW6) and the other is a far more accelerated form of my hairloss (Norwood 4?ish). Both are in their 50s. No one else is noticely bald.
 

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Reibun

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After Hair Cut May 18th
 

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Reibun

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Last of the photos
 

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Reibun

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Thanks for the insight. Yeah, I plan on getting on finasteride asap, but I am unsure of a reliable place to order it. I noticed you ordered from InHousePharmacy, and I noticed you have some pretty good results, but I'm still skeptical on its grade. Do you have any outside reasons to believe its pretty legit and isn't just a sugar pill? I would just get it from a doctor, but they don't like giving out that medication apparently...

As for minoxidil - I'm a little put off from it. I heard several times that it tends to quit working after a couple years. If this is true, I want to hold off on it and see if finasteride works well.

Have you had any "finasteride side effects"?

And did you ever have horrible itchiness before treatment? And if so do you have any remedies and getting ride of the itchiness, its driving me nuts!

Thanks again. :)
 

Rawtashk

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If you're on a budget, then go with generic Propecia Check out 4rx.com. They actually have a price match guarantee, so I'd even go through them if you found somewhere else for cheaper.

http://www.4rx.com/online-pharmacy/cate ... pecia.html

I've been taking Finasteride from them for the last 3 years. My hair loss went from 200 hairs a day to about 25, so I know it wasn't just a sugar pill or something like that. They have online support for questions, and they told me this: "We have more than one supplier for the same medication and we ship out according to the availability of the stock. We carry generic Propecia manufactured by GenPharma, Sunrise, Cipla and Intas Lab Pvt."

If you're worried about budget, then I would suggest going for 90 1mg caps first. If you don't have a problem with sides then make your next order the 5mg caps and you can quarter them (1.25mg) to save some money.

2 money saving tips if you go there...
1: Let's say you want 90 caps. Add the 30 caps to your cart instead. It will take you to a checkout page, but it will also give you a chance to upgrade your order to 90 pills for $7 cheaper. Same goes for if you want to get 360, add 180 to your cart first

2: Use the promo code Q52EM37T during checkout for another 10% off. That's my promo code that I got for being a return customer, so feel free to use it :)


Here's my story, so you know that I'm trying to sell you on the product...not the website :)
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65594
 

Reibun

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Rawtashk - Thanks for the info, I might be utilizing this soon.


Captain Combover - That makes sense, I hope in actually it holds true. Still wish the doctor would prescribe it to me instead.

I just had a new thought on minoxidil. If minoxidil is known to regrow and thicken hair, and lets assume it does for an individual, in theory after the person has gotten the most regrowth and thickening possible from minoxidil and can't get anymore regrowth or thickening, couldn't that person quit using minoxidil and still maintain that newly grown and thickened hair with finasteride? I ask this mainly because everyone talks about how you have to stay on any of these medications to keep the results, which makes since with finasteride due to the desire to keep DHT levels down, but for minoxidil it just seems pointless after the regrowth and thickening has been achieved and no more hair is being lost while on finasteride.

I might do both together, with nizoral of course. I'm also considering trying spironolactone as well, although I'm not sure where to get that either.
 

Reibun

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Also is it alright to order finasteride with a credit card or should i buy a gift card to pay for it?
 

Rawtashk

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I'd just go with a CC.

Also, what kind of quack doctor tells you that you don't have hairloss? Any doctor with half a brain should be able to tell...
 

deadlocks

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I'd advice you to DO take minoxidil, as perfectly visible in the long hair pictures, you still have some old the old hairline left, the hairs are just very short and low quality, but not completely slick. Minoxidil would give those hairs an extra boost to grow in better, and it's better than to take finasteride alone. I also have almost exactly the same pattern of hairloss it seems.

Also, I'd say your hairline is about a Norwood 2.5 bordering on NW3, just like mine is.
 

Reibun

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Well I'm definitely considering minoxidil, but I'm debating factors about it. aka, if I should use it forever after starting and how much to be using period.

So, after running my hand through my hair today and having atleast 100 hairs fall out into the sink, I decided my hairloss might be aggressive. And decided I want to jump on other stuff as soon as possible, seeing as currently what I am doing is not working too great.

Currently I am taking Saw Palmetto at 3-4 times a day and a half of a daily vitamin daily, and recently Fish Oil twice a day, with Nizoral 3-5 times a week.
I'm going to a dermatologist in a week, getting blood work ( for reference later ) and doing a lot of theorizing about everything.

Recently, the past two week, I have changed my diet a lot due to some things I read. Honestly, it seems like it has helped somewhat ( judging this on a slight decrease in inchiness ) .

My ideal regiment I would like to start on is :
- Nizoral - every other day. -2%
- spironolactone - every off day of Nizoral - 2%-5%
- Finasteride - every day - .25-.50 mg
- Saw Palmetto - 1-2 day -450mg (its a combonation of a few things)
- Daily Vitamin (Standard) - every day - half a tablet
- Fish Oil - every day - 2 gel capsules
- Biotin - every day - .5mg
--- AND probably Minoxidil liquid every day (once or twice a day until hair growth is maximized, then I would attempt to lower it to once a day or every other day)


As for the spironolactone... Im considering making it rather than buying it. Reason? Its fairly expensive in retrospect to everything else ( unless someone knows a better place to buy it... ) . Being fairly fluent in science ( chemistry ) I am fairly confident I can make my own solution, and have the liberty to adjust the concentration as I see fit.

The theory behind this regiment "build" is that I will be using a variety of things that in theory will reduce DHT and promote hair growth. By using this "build" it helps to avoid high concentrations of any one chemical in the body, and will hopefully help to avoid any side effects. The hope is that each part of this regiment will add a percent to success for my hair restoration.
Example: finasteride 40% + spironolactone 20% + minoxidil 20% + everything else 20% = 100% hair regrowth power. Will it work, who knows.

Also, life style changes will be adjusted.
- More physical exercise.
- Less stress.
- More sleep.
- Diet adjustment.

I am making these changes based on some theories and testimonials I read about, AND theories I have came up with. I am not fond of just statements, or beliefs, I try my best to associate any of my theories based on a chemical standpoint in the body.


So since this is my hairloss "story" I think it will be ideal to post about my past. So there will be an edit to my first post ( assuming that is possible I haven't tried it yet ). Honestly I think I progressed my hairloss the most due to my habits in the past 3 years.

Again, provide as much input, and help you can and will. Thanks!
 

deadlocks

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Exactly, drop the Saw Palmetto, or at least classify what these "combination of different things" are (like, additional vitamins or minerals or something, if that's the case I see no hurt in taking it other than a slight chance of getting more side effects).

Also, I'd advice you to take Biotin out of food instead out of pills. Much better for your health not to take too many pills imo, and fresh fruits / vegetables could never hurt anyone.

Btw, what where your "habbits" last 3 years? Curious of this myself, as I to haven't been living too well in the past either, and would like to know where you think you made these mistakes (like drinking too much, sleeping too few hours ect)?
 

Reibun

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Captain Combover - Mostly I agree with your last comment. It's just between reading about side effects and when last week I had practically no itching or soreness on the scalp, I think "Maybe I'll start slow..." In all honesty, yesterday my scalp was on fire, and it was the worse ever. I am waiting on my finasteride, and should have it within a week ideally. In all honesty, there is a good chance I will start on 1mg.. I'm more worried about minoxidil honestly. I keep hearing stories about it loosing its effectiveness within a year or two, and that it ends up making your hair worse in the end..

Rawtashk - I will probably stay taking Saw unless I hear bad things about it. Its inexpensive and so far I hear that the things in my tabs offer benefits even outside of the hair realm, therefore taking them seems worthwhile regardless. But this could be subject to change if I hear bad things about them. The saw tabs I have been taking have 900mg Saw Fruit, 40mg Saw Berry, 2.5mg Pygeum Africanum, 2.5 mg Pumpkin Seed, 2.5 Lycopene, and 2.5 Beta Sitosterol.

Deadlocks - Through out most of my life I lived by the code of not taking supplementation or pills of any sort, so I try my best to limit it to what I have to take. I take the Biotin mostly because its a readily used chemical in the body, its used for a lot of key functions, so I'm imaging whatever increase I throw in, as long as its reasonable, it should handle it pretty well. And additionally, I'm trying to see if I can slow some of the hairloss down by altering my diet recently. I feel like I have been too careless in what I eat, I usually used to just eat whatever and to whatever degree. Anyways, my change in diet is what makes me want to take the daily vitamins and the biotin to assure I get my daily values.
As for my past life style, its in the first comment of this topic, so check there. Although I forgot to mention I have been living in an apartment with very unappealing water for two years. The water is very hard, and as an example, after washing the dishes off there will be nasty white build up them after drying. I rarely hear people mention anything about water's effects topically or internally in respect to hair, but its worth noting...
 

Rawtashk

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Here's why I suggest dropping the Saw.

It has the least possibly chance of benefit when it comes to keeping your hair, yet is also has the potential for sides. If you're to start getting sides, then how do you know what to drop?

Also, if you take 80 things, then how do you know what it is that's working for you? I'd do finasteride/minoxidil/nizoral for 6-8 months so that you have an idea how that's working for you, then add on from there if you feel like you need some more help.

I didn't listen to my own advice and started dutasteride and Minox15% at the same time. Hairline started suffering...and now I'm not sure which one is the reason, so I dropped the dutasteride and we'll see. Would have been nice to know right away which one was the cause :-/
 

Reibun

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@Rawtashk - You make a good point. And I will definitely stop taking it when I start my new regiment now. I might thereafter restart taking it after I am aware of any side effects from the new regiment. I will note though that I have been taking Saw Palmetto for about 2 months without any side effects, even upon consumption of heavy doses of it at first.


Upon reading more things from all over, I think a gluten-free, casein-free, and low cholesterol and low sugar diet would be favorable in reducing hairloss. I have yet to decide if I will employ all of these options to my diet yet though, considering how difficult it will be, or if they will truly help all that much.

Also from this point on I will keep an updated log of my future plans for regiments and "life changes", and current regiments and "life changes" on my first post.
 

Reibun

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Update-

I went to the dermatologist June 15th, and not much to my surprise, the doctor was a "quack". Without even looking at me to exam my skin issues, he jumped straight forward to prescribing me with medications without any explanation or observed reason on his part. Out of curiosity, I asked him "common" knowledge and questions about hairloss, and either he was lying the whole time or extremely uninformed, but his facts were all over the place.
Some of the statements he made were as followed:

-Finasteride has NO threat of causing permanent damage.
-Finasteride will NOT cause my hormones to go crazy.
-Finasteride will NOT alter my estrogen levels.
-Finasteride's side effects rare, and if occur are extremely mild.
-Finasteride's side effects are related to guy sexual functions, and have no other side effects, minus allergic reactions.
-Finasteride blocks testosterone from reaching the hair.
-spironolactone has no topical form.
-spironolactone if used topically won't have any benefits.
-spironolactone is a pill both men and women can take safely.
-Never heard of Saw Palmetto.
-Doesn't believe in Male Pattern Baldness having "triggers" or catalyst and blames it entirely on genetics.
-minoxidil blocks testosterone.
-So on.

On the bright side. He will give me anything without hesitation.

He gave me Finasteride 5mg, Nizoral 2%, and Fluocinonide (Lidex).
I don't anything about Lidex yet, so I have yet to start that. That being said, any advice would be appreciated.

I honestly have no faith in doctors, I keep getting sent here and there, while they have no real idea what they are doing themselves. Currently they want me to see a urologist. Reason. A month ago my testosterone level was a bit higher than normal. June 15th, a month later, I got another test and my testosterone level had risen a bit more, before the use of Finasteride. I have a lot of ideas why this may be.
- My body never adjusting to back to normal after lifting a lot last year, and not doing so this year (least likely)
- My body has some sort of "disease" giving off extra testosterone.
- My hormonal levels messed up due to bad living habits for several years.
- Starting to work out more lately.
- OR, the mythical and mysterious, Saw Palmetto. I was taking 2 pills a day before I took the first test. Last month, before the last test I took, I was taking 3-4 pills of it a day. So maybe....

Truly its hard to say because of SOOO many variables.

I ordered some Finasteride online, and I have some from my pharmacy. I will be taking the one from the pharmacy. The two pills look different, which makes sense since they are made by two different companies. But yeah. Just wanted to state this.


SOOO this all being said, now for an update on my condition.

I started a new diet AND began working out again. No dairy (casein). No gluten. I try to avoid other processed foods and preservatives as well. For the most part, I have been gluten/dairy free since my last post. Interesting facts about the diet for me; I have less desired to over eat, lets bloatedness, and "better bowel" movements, haha. In all seriousness, I feel healthier, but I will leave the ranting and positive talk until a few months later.

For whatever reason, my weight has dropped. This may be a good thing considering I am back to the weight I was before I started to lose hair.

Hair condition. Another interesting thing. The last week I haven't been itching as much. Is it due to me finally deciding on a course of action to go with my hair and less worrying about it? Could it be due to me being busy with so much other things in my life? Or could it be due to my regiment and life style? Who knows, but its important to note the itchiness has been reduced. Another observation I have noticed is that my itchiness increases the longer I don't shower or apply nizoral. Makes sense, due to my hair always being oily and flaky.

Actual Hairloss.... Lately I have occasionally seen a slight decrease in hairloss. So maybe my new change is working, we will see later on.

Current regiment ( what I am doing to fight against my "hairy" situation):
finasteride ( 1.25mg) - Still debating on how much I really want to take though...
Zinc ( 50mg ) - To get reduce the chance of some of the possible side effects
Daily Vitamin
Fish Oil
Biotin
Nizoral 2% - 2 days a week
Nizoral 1% - 2-4 days a week
Gluten free/dairy free diet
Working out
Lack of stress ( no school, easy job, no issues at all)
Enough sleep. Although pattern is a bit mixed up.

Stopped/soon to be added:

Saw Palmetto - I think I will jump back on this later, I believe it was doing something...
Minoxidil - Ehh. So iffy with it. Will jump on it shortly though,
Fluocinonide - Doing research on it first
Spironolactone - I really want to make a topical solution of this. Has anyone bought the pills anywhere and can state it was real?

So there it all is. I haven't cut my hair since the base photos, and I haven't noticed any big changes in my hair, thus no photos will be posted until one of those cases change. I am taking pictures actively though, and will try to only post ones matter.

And as usual, any and all comments are welcomed. If you comment on my forum, I will do the same for you. Thanks!
 

Rawtashk

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2 things to your Doctor's defense.

I don't think that there is a topical form of spironolactone that he can give you a scrip for. Most if it is made my some other person (like the one here on HairLossTalk.com)

Men and women can take it orally. Lots of body builders take it to shed water weight. Also, men wanting to become transgender to female will take it to facilitate the hormone changes needed.


As for your plan, keep at it and take pics! Good luck!
 
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