RU, CB, ASC, Equol, BIM, AHKl

WhereDaHair

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This post is a spin-off from http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interac...-Norwood-1-3?p=1101412&viewfull=1#post1101412
RU, sometime RU58841 is Anti-Androgen (AA), comes in powder form that was tested in clinical trials for hairloss and had some significant benefits, but the study was shelved and the product is not approved and marketed for hairloss. You can only get it, in powder form, from suppliers based in China, and make your own topical soultion (in alcohol and PG) at home and use it like minoxidil everyday.

It has gotten quite affordable in recent years and actually be dirt cheap if you can get it through groupbuys in one of these hairloss forums. A hairloss website, with "experimental" forum/discussion has plenty of information on it. Alternatively, you may go to mpbtreatment website and they sell ready made solution, but is quite expensive.

It has been determined that 5-10% solution to be optimal for Androgenetic Alopecia treatment, once or twice a day.

RUM, is a derivative, of RU, something called like RU-Myristate (sp?), with similar function as RU with possibly added benefit of stimulant.


CB, aka, CB-03-01, appears to have potent anti-androgenic activity without significant local or systemic side effects. In other words, it is a safe drug that would not affect much your sexual and other functions in body, unlike other AA topicals such as Flutamide, spironolactone.

I believe it is still undergoing official clinical trials somewhere and has promising benefits for Androgenetic Alopecia, but will take time to come out as legit hair product in market. So, you need a chinese supplier to obtain it.

It is used as topical, comes in powder form for now, and you will be making a solution on your own at home. I am unsure of % solution for CB


ASC, aka ASC-J9 is a curcumin (Turmeric/Curry powder) derivative, made in pure molecular form in labs and has AA properties. It not only attaches to AR (Androgen Receptors) at hair follicles, but also degrades them making it more efficient, effective, and potent fighter against dht-binding to its hair follicle receptors.

In addition, it has anti-inflammatory properties for all over body, and defends hair follicles against inflammation caused by your own body. Inflammation is one part of the process that results in hair follicle miniaturization, and thus, shutting down of hair follicles/factory.

It was in some clinical trials somewhere, and I believe, trials were discontinued possibly because of ASC high staining problems and thus less marketability or something.

It is used as topical, comes in powder form, not commercially available. Again, you will be seeking a Chinese supplier for this.

You will be making a solution on your own at home. The % it was used in trials an/or benefical for hair is 0.1% solution


Equol is also Anti Androgen: It is different from other AAs in action in that it attaches and degrades dht directly, thus, no dht left in serum in the first place, and thus no transcription/messenger of baldness to hair follicles. Whereas, other AAs bind to AA receptors found in corresponding tissues resulting in still free dht floating around.

It is still in clinical trials (I think) and not available commercially. You will need chinese suppliers to get it in powder form and make your home made solution.

Usual effective solution for Androgenetic Alopecia treatment has been determined to be 5% Equol solution.

Bimatoprost is Growth Stimulant: Alternative to Minoxidil. It increases PGF2 (or PGE2?) at hair follicle sites. PGE2/PGF2 is responsible for initializing and maintaing hair Anagen-growing phase. Thus, it helps to lengthen the hair growing cycle and actually reactivates dormant follicles.

It is approved for application for eye lashes growth already. I am unsure if it is already in clinical trials for Androgenetic Alopecia treatment somewhere. The approved solution for eye lashes growth, I believe is by prescription, and is very low concentration to be of any good for scalp hair. IF anyone does decide to buy that one for scalp hair, then you would need a large quantity per dose application to par with dose/percent good for scalp hair. Needless to say, it will be very expensive, as it is already too expensive for eye lash tiny bottle applications. It is not practical.

It is unavailable otherwise, and you will need Chinese Suppliers to get it in powder form. It is very expensive there too, hundreds of dollars for 1g.

Usual effective solution for Androgenetic Alopecia treatment has been determined to be 0.1% Bima solution, alcohol based.

AHk-Copper Peptide
is a stimulant that provides Copper-Peptides, A chain of molecules containing Cu which is essetial for hair growth.

It was also in clinical trials years ago and had promising result. But, trials were discontinued because it did not do much better than minoxidil, and it was not marketable for profit.

AHK-Cu is well know for skin and hair benefits and is an ingredient in several cosmetics for skin/hair improvement. There is mixed review on its efficay for Androgenetic Alopecia benefits. But, its a good addition to already basic regimen such as Androgen-dht control.

It is available in cream form on some website for skincare, but its expensive. You may need pure powder form in at least 98% purity to make a solution for your treatment. *******, what I found, sells it in grams for lowest price so far. Their website will tell you more about it how to make it in solution form quite easily. It is also available in powder and solution form at mpbtreatment website, but more expensive, especially the solution.

It is better to make your own home made solution based on alc/pg-will work just as fine. I believe clinical trials were done on 2.5 and 5% solution. Some have reported adverse results if used in higher concentration. Less than 2.5% of solution is useless in most cases.





I am desperately looking for an alternative to address the root cause of my diffuse hair loss. I am currently only applying Rogaine twice daily.

Most of the products mentioned above (BIG THANKS to The_Mentalist for taking the time to explain this to me) seem to be what are known as Anti-Androgens. So, that's what I'm trying to understand first.

Just to get back to basics for one second:

Propecia

  • Works because inhibits 5a-reductase -> Prevents much of DHT from forming in the body
  • Result = DHT does not attack hair follicles. But, since DHT is a component of what it means to be a male, inhibiting it's production leads to adverse side effects.

Anti-Androgen (this terms confuses me, but...)

  • Does not stop DHT from being formed, rather blocks, or competes with it so DHT does not bind to receptors at hair follicles, at the site applied.
  • Is that to say that it WILL NOT CAUSE SIDES because does not inhibit/ stop DHT production in the body, rather just blocks at the scalp where applied? Or, is there some systemic action that still causes problems in other parts of the body?

So before I go trying to figure out how to obtain it and make solutions I am wondering...
If this is true then why in the world would anyone take that awful Propecia/finasteride? Convenience? What reason!?! Unless I am understand this wrong, I would much rather just block DHT at the area that causing me to loose my hair on my scalp as opposed to preventing it's production and wrecking havoc on my whole hormonal balance.
 

LawOfThelema

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antiandrogen is just a heuristic term. we might call dutasteride an antiandrogen as well since it interferes with and reduces androgenic action in the body. RU is an androgen receptor antagonist and so is CB. these work by attaching themselves to the androgen receptor which prevents the DHT from binding and exerting its effects.
 

AleMB81

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Just two things:

1) bimatoprost is in phase II. Allergan is perfoming the analysis

2) Please find below the answer given to me to the company which is performing tests on CB:

Dear Mr. xxx,

I am glad to inform you that Phase II US clinical study on acne vulgaris (NCT01631474) started as planned on June 2012, and it is proceeding regularly.
A previous Phase II European study in facial acne vulgaris (EudraCT 2008-004335-37) was completed in July 2009, and the results have been published on British Medical Journal 2011;165:177-83.
As concerns the possible US launch, we maintain our deadline for 2015.
Kind regards


Giuseppe Celasco, MD
Chief Medical Officer
 

antman

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those products are expensive and i don't see many people posting success results on those.
Propecia is cheap, readily available and many people have success on it without side effects.
Anti-androgens are used to transform a male in something that sorta looks female but isn't.

 

AleMB81

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those products are expensive and i don't see many people posting success results on those.
Propecia is cheap, readily available and many people have success on it without side effects.
Anti-androgens are used to transform a male in something that sorta looks female but isn't.


Of course they are expensive and not giving so many good feeback..cause they are not on the market. if they were sold in the pharmacies probably you would see so many people happy for them

PS: It's full of people happy of RU results
 

WhereDaHair

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antiandrogen is just a heuristic term. we might call dutasteride an antiandrogen as well since it interferes with and reduces androgenic action in the body. RU is an androgen receptor antagonist and so is CB. these work by attaching themselves to the androgen receptor which prevents the DHT from binding and exerting its effects.

OK. Well my main concern is side effects. I had (am still having) a horrible experience from finasteride. But loosing my hair is something I am truly struggling with also. So what I am asking really is, "Would I be much less likely to experience adverse side effects with the antiandrogens mentioned above because they only block (compete with) DHT at the site applied"?

Or, is there some systemic effect that could potentially cause problems in my body. I am hoping that the AA's I referred to only block the DHT at the hair follicles that they are applied to, preventing sides from being an issue.



1) bimatoprost is in phase II. Allergan is perfoming the analysis

I am not yet familiar with bimatoprost. Is it another AA similar to the ones which I posted this question about (just to add to my confusion lol)? Is it more promising than the others?

As concerns the possible US launch, we maintain our deadline for 2015.
What if I am slick headed by then though? I believe I will be... :(




those products are expensive and i don't see many people posting success results on those.
Propecia is cheap, readily available and many people have success on it without side effects.
Anti-androgens are used to transform a male in something that sorta looks female but isn't.

I have already tried Propecia. I responded well regarding my hair. But I certainly had adverse side effects from using it. So, I am very afraid to try that again. When you say, "Anti-androgens are used to transform a male in something that sorta looks female but isn't."... are you referring to oral AA's or even topical AA's as well?

Again, I just don't want to prevent DHT from doing it's regular and beneficial thing in my body, but I want to shut it down at the hair follicle, and the hair follicle only. So, before I get into the semi-black market of hair loss products and get into mixing my own solutions I wanted to be as clear as I can be about that.

Thank You for taking you're time to help me! :)


 

Aks20

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I will tell you this, dont underrate minoxidil. It will keep your hair going with only gradual loss. Only thing is when you stop, you will lose all the hair where you applied minoxidil rapidly since they become minoxidil dependent. Thats what happened to me. I went from NW3 to NW3V very fast, well on way to NW4.
But if you dont have sides with minoxidil, its the only positive alternative to Propecia though both are ideally complementary.
 
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