Saliva testing results - completely confused

[Pelican]

I just got a saliva test series back from NeuroScience, and while I was expecting to be outside normal ranges I wasn't expecting this:

(low) Estradiol at 7 AM - 0.7, optimal range for males is .8 to 1.5
(high) Estrone at 7 AM - 3.3, optimal range is 1.0 to 2.5
(low) Free testosterone at 7 AM - 46.4, optimal range is 75-95
(low, yes low) DHT at 7 AM - 10.6, optimal range is 20 to 40
(normal) DHEA at 7 AM - 314, optimal is 300 to 600
(low) Cortisol at 7 AM - 1.6, optimal 8 to 15
(low) Cortisol at 11 AM - .6, optimal is 3 to 7 at noon
(low) Cortisol at 3 PM - .3, optimal is 2 to 4 at 5PM
(low) Cortisol at 7 PM - .6, optimal at 10 PM is .3 to 1.5

My hairloss products: None

I was on Finasteride for about five years (about 5mg per week spread out), but stopped that four months ago. I tried Dutasteride in January, switching from finasteride to dutasteride for approximately a month, then back on Finasteride for a bit before quitting everything. I use no topicals, no nothing.

From what I can see, I'm severely low on the testosterone chart to the point where I'm only a bit above a female, my DHT is an male pattern baldness sufferer's dream, I have no cortisol, and my Estrone is notably high.

So, either this test was wonky (and from what I know of NeuroScience they're a legitimate and widely used lab), or I've got something else going on. Can anyone make heads or tails of this?

 

[hair mchair]

Odd results indeed. Have you been to an endocrinologist? If not, you should find a good endo to examine you. Are you experiencing any sexual side effects or signs of gyno?

 

[Trilidon]

Your free test is wayyyyy down...

If your having libido trouble that and the excess estrone are most likely the cause.

 

[drinkrum]

Well, your estradiol is low -- and that's really the key. I believe it is the most active and powerful estrogen (like DHT in men).

Your testestorone is indeed low. I would recommend going to an endo and getting a blood test. Those tend to be more accurate.

I noticed you went on dutasteride for a month. Why did you quit? And then go back on finasteride? Dutasteride has a long half-life (almost a month) and continues to affect the body. This could very well be the reason for many of your test results.

It may best to wait a month or two just to be completely sure it's entirely kicked out of your system before getting the blood test.

D.

 

[PolarBear]

My hormone profile

Blood sample taken on: 23.07.2003.
Testing finished: 08.08.2003.
---------------------------------------------------------
Hormone: My value: Normal value:
---------------------------------------------------------

FSH 3,4 IU/L 1,0 - 8,0

LH 3,4 IU/L 0,6 – 12,0

ESTRADIOL 0,32 nmol/L < 0,20

PROLACTIN 265 mIU/L 50 - 440

TESTOSTERON 16,7 nmol/L 10,4 – 41,6

FREE TEST. 56,8 pmol/L 30,5 – 93,4

DHEA – S04 11,2 µmol/L 0,95 – 11,9

ANDROSTENDION 8,8 nmol/L 1,1 – 10,8

SHBG 19,0 nmol/L 10 - 73

It is clear that my estradiol level (the most potent version of estrogen) is far out the normal range. The maximum upper limit is 0.20 units fo males (probably for males with some natural disorder), and my value is 0.32 !!!

f***, I consider this as a very good news. Almost 7 months after discontinuing finast (used it for 2 months), I still suffer from very low libido and erection difficulties.

Also, my testosterone is too low; too low for the person of my age, health and muscularity.

Free testosterone is low too, in my humble opinion. LH, which is very important, is low too IMHO.

Those are all factors that dictate your libido, erections, response to sexual signals etc. And they are fucked up a bit, so I consider this as a good sign; a sign that maybe my problem is not so hidden as I previously thought.

Tribestan is on its way; I'll start immediately with 6 tablets per day.
I've found one Bulgarian site that sells original Sopharma's brand for 22$ + 5$ s/h. Unbeatable. Check it out at http://www.libido-bg.com

Based on detailed study about Tribestan, it seems that it can be extremely helpful for case like mine - the case which is portrayed with my hormone profile.

 

[Pelican]

I quit dutasteride because I ran out and felt as though I was seeing a very immediate and dramatic negative impact on my hairline. My libido didn't change on it, nor did I see an increase in acne, but my hair itself became oily very quickly and I experienced a pretty marked shed at the temples. At the time there were lots of messages about dutasteride and people either having phenomenal results in a matter of weeks, or very negative results in a matter of weeks. Having been on finasteride for quite a while and using all sorts of topicals over five years I'm used to the phenomena of treatment-induced shedding, but this was off the chain.

As a follow-up, I've since discovered that my cortisol levels are actually within the normal range, they were printed on a separate sheet and I had misread the information on it.

I believe my low test may also be related to the weight gain I experienced on finasteride. I am quite literally (according to my body fat scale, they're not perfectly accurate but they give a rough approximation) in the high-20s for body fat, representing a virtual doubling of my body fat ratio in the past five years. I put on over 50 pounds in this period of time, including quite a bit of abdominal fat which is a killer for testosterone production. I let it go so long because I was very skinny to begin with and I have a broad-shouldered frame that took very well to the weight initially (filled out well), but now I'm about 25 pounds over.

I do believe my body is still trying to sort itself out after such a long period on finasteride. I believe I've probably upregulated/increased the sensitivity of my DHT receptors with it, as well as had a slow estrogenic build-up that's left me in my current shape. I've noted a slowing of what was spreading body hair, for example. I actually used a depilatory on my lower torso about a month and a half ago and regrowth of the hair all over there was been much slower, something I'm attributing to my body's DHT receptors normalizing. The hair that's growing in is coming in not just more slowly, but more softly. I've been through this process twice before, about six months apart each time, and this is definitely different.

Anyway, that's my story for now. I'll be going to an endocrinologist in early October, I'm currently dieting down my weight/body fat and getting back into shape. I seem to be feeling more 'normal' than I have in ages day by day, libido and erections are coming back like monsters in fits and spurts but becoming much more normalized and stronger than I can recall in ages. The down side - continued temple recession, which I'm hoping is at least in part related to the upregulation of receptors and will taper off as they normalize. If it gets really bad and continues for several more months I may go back on finasteride, but only with regular blood or saliva tests and only under a strict regimine to keep my weight and body fat down.

(Can't stress enough how much of a hormonal fubarer abdominal fat is for males. Want lower testosterone and higher estrogen? Pack on the abdominal fat. It'll create a nice cycle that makes it even easier to put more and more fat on, and the more you put on the harder the cycle is to break.)