dpdr
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Saw Palmetto Suppresses Insulin-Like Growth Factor
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OverMachoGrande
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Yes,yes,yes...dpdr. I hope you know that I believe that IGF-1 plays a very big part in the balding process...I think that IGF-1 enlarges the sebaceous glands (and the prostate)... which then produces more sebum, which then causes inflammation from bacteria that eats the sebum, which destroys the follicle. The hair does grow back... but thinner and thinner each time, due to atherosclerosis, which definitely correlates with male pattern baldness
IGF-1 is not a good thing...It promotes aging!
IGF-1 is not a good thing...It promotes aging!
sxyhairwatch
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IGF 1 is a wonderful thing that's a vital part of anabolic processes.
I really get worried sometimes when I see people made to fear their own hormones.
"Testosterone is bad, DHT is bad, IGF-1 is bad". Fine I'll have everyone else's they don't want.
OverMachoGrande
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sxyhairwatch said:
IGF-1 is a wonderful thing if you want prostate cancer, acne, or M.P.B.
IGF-1 is only important during infancy and puberty...increasing your IGF-1 after puberty can cause cancer and accelerates the aging process.
I think you need to clarify somethinig. IGF-1 in conjunction with androgens causes sebaceous glands to enlarge. IGF-1 alone won't.
Also IGF-1 doesn't accelerate aging. HGH has been used for anti-aging with great results. Most of the benefits anti-aging benefits that come with HGH can be attributed to IGF-1. HGH is converted into IGF-1 in the liver. IGF-1 is only going to cause problems if there is an existing condition (i.e. prostate cancer). On its own, it is not capable of doing any of the things you say. It's simply a hormone that promotes growth however given the right circumstance, it can cause alot of problems (including the ones you mentioned).
Also IGF-1 doesn't accelerate aging. HGH has been used for anti-aging with great results. Most of the benefits anti-aging benefits that come with HGH can be attributed to IGF-1. HGH is converted into IGF-1 in the liver. IGF-1 is only going to cause problems if there is an existing condition (i.e. prostate cancer). On its own, it is not capable of doing any of the things you say. It's simply a hormone that promotes growth however given the right circumstance, it can cause alot of problems (including the ones you mentioned).
OverMachoGrande
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Actually, IGF-1 decreases S.H.B.G. (Kaaks and Lukanova, 2001; Cordain et al 2003)
Decreased S.H.B.G. allows testosterone to be converted to D.H.T. and estradiol.
In other words IGF-1 promotes D.H.T. and estrogen and decreases testosterone and S.H.B.G.
The reason why vegans have much higher testosterone levels is because they don't eat animal protein, which stimulates IGF-1, which decreases S.H.B.G., which then allows the testosterone that was bound to S.H.B.G. to be converted.
Decreased S.H.B.G. allows testosterone to be converted to D.H.T. and estradiol.
In other words IGF-1 promotes D.H.T. and estrogen and decreases testosterone and S.H.B.G.
The reason why vegans have much higher testosterone levels is because they don't eat animal protein, which stimulates IGF-1, which decreases S.H.B.G., which then allows the testosterone that was bound to S.H.B.G. to be converted.
sxyhairwatch
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misterE said:
Well no. That's just not correct at all. And hormones don't 'cause' cancers, anymore than they 'cause' hair to fall out. That's just an oversimplification and misinterpretation of complex processes.
We don't have all the answers so people often try to manipulate hormones for say hair loss, and they make a choice when they use something like Finastride to do that.
sxyhairwatch
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misterE said:
Well there's many studies that favor all kinds of different things in diet and effects on T etc. But then there's so many other factors that moderate hormonal levels and there are so many interactions and cascades going on, cherry picking one that appears to favor lowering DHT for say hair loss purposes may as well be wearing a blue hat as a treatment.
It's just not going to mean anything in the real world.
I'm not aware of vegans having 'much higher testosterone levels' and compared to what ?, I did a search for it but can't find that. If this alone translated into anything meaningful, perhaps a lot of athletes would be vegans. If anything the only reference I could find was suggesting that low protein diets associated with this cause an increase in SHBG not a decrease. Another study suggested the poor performance of athletes avoiding meat.
But in the end it's kind of missing the point. The ideal treatments for hair loss would be nothing to do with T, DHT, IGF-1 etc which all have profound and essential uses in the body. They would be to do with inhibiting other local factors.
OverMachoGrande
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Hoppi
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sxyhairwatch said:
lol pretty much ANY hormone is bad in a high enough quantity!!
misterE said:
maybe I do
sorry hehe, I'm playing but I am with you on this one misterE, I think it needs to be kept regulated and at a healthy level. It does seem to have negative effects in higher quantities at least.
Hoppi
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Saw Palmetto is awesome
Out of interest, why doesn't it get anywhere near as much attention as Finasteride? Is it actually not as powerful or is it because finasteride is a more obvious choice? I mean surely at slightly higher levels such as 320mg and above, SP is gonna have a fair amount of clout!
Out of interest, why doesn't it get anywhere near as much attention as Finasteride? Is it actually not as powerful or is it because finasteride is a more obvious choice? I mean surely at slightly higher levels such as 320mg and above, SP is gonna have a fair amount of clout!