Seborrheic Dermatitis

[need_hair04]

according to the research that I have done on this, it appears that Seborrheic Dermatitis caused the exact symptoms that I had when my "dandruff" was at its worst... itchyness, redness around hair line, flaky skin, AND SHEDDING of hair in SOME cases!!

Since my hair thickness and hairline have remained the same do you guys think that it was entirely possible that my shedding of 150-200 a day BEFORE propecia could have been because of this and NOT male pattern baldness??

Just wondering cause I've been on proscar for about 5months now and shedding has completely stopped... BUT I have also used nizoral and T-gel to eliminate the problem. Do you guys think it would be a safe bet to drop proscar or keep with it for a while longer??

 

[asolof]

The inflammation associated with seborrhea can cause hairloss. It is possible that that is your only problem. How much hair did you lose, when did you lose it, and how fast did you lose it? What is your Norwood classification.

Since you started your treatments, did you observe any regrowth? If so, how soon after you started the treatments did it begin and how much regrowth do you now have?

 

[avri]

The "P" in "male pattern baldness" is for Pattern. Hair loss for reasons other than male pattern baldness would not be in the same pattern, i.e. shedding would not be limited to crown or temples, it can also be in the sides or the back of the scalp.


avri

 

[need_hair04]

Well first off what I have is definately not Male PATTERN Hairloss, it is more diffuce, my hairline is solid and the thickness of my hair has maintained throughout my scalp... HOWEVER the reason why I wasn't shedding on the sides and back was BECAUSE there was no inflamation there at all, all the inflamation was on the upper part of my scalp!!all around the hairline and top!
So as a norwood classification I would be considered a Norwood 0 or 0.5!!

As for the treatments I started (Nizoral, Proscar, and T-Gel) the hairloss stopped on the first week of propecia (already on Nizoral for a month) so I know this didnt stop because of the propecia!!

As for the thickness of my hair it was pretty much the same but my hair returned to its norm by the time the inflamation was under control!!

Any input on this!

By the way I went through a minor shed at the three month mark on finasteride lasted 2 weeks, everything else has been knock on wood since then, 5 months proscar now!!

 

[Molecular Help]

Well for one thing, you can still have male pattern baldness without a recession pattern. If you have diffuse hair loss on the top of the head and crown, the much heralded horseshoe, and not the sides or back, you still have male pattern baldness. The pattern is the end result- not the way you get there.

Also I don't think seborheatic dermatitis (sp) can cause noticible hair loss. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere in a "hair loss myths" informational paper. What you're seeing is a common problem that occurs in the same area as male pattern baldness, and to some degree worsens it, but is probably caused by some of the same factors. My tone is unsure because this inflammation and its causes seem to be the most mysterious aspect of male pattern baldness. I've heard people talk about how it's caused by an autoimmune reaction to the hair follicles where your body attacks the follicles possibly as a result of the alteration they undergoe when exposed to dht. I'm not an expert at all, but I've read enough "experts" to know they don't have this sh*t figured out yet.

Anyways you need to eliminate said inflammation because it's certainly not helping your situation. Even if you do you will still lose hair though without other treatments.

MH

 

[Molecular Help]

Actually reading things over perhaps if your situation is normal right now then you should try getting off the treatments briefly just to check. It would be worth it before embarking on a lifetime of buying this sh*t.

 

[asolof]

NeedHair_04,

If I understand you correctly, you noticed an increase rate of shedding associated with your seborrheic dermatitis (dandruf). You never noticed hairloss anywhere on your scalp in the sense of a receding hairline or a decrease in hair density. Your improvement (decreased shedding) occurred after your treatment which resolved your seborrhea and before propecia had time to have an effect.

So:

1. You do not have male pattern baldness and therefore should not take propecia.

2. Your shedding resolved with your dandruff treatment. This may be cause and effect or coincidence. For example, there may be another unmentioned factor which caused a telogen effluvium which has spontaneously resolved.

3. Regardless of #2, since I assume you don't want dandruff, I'd suggest you keep that under control with your dandruff shampoos and go out and celebrate tonight (that at least for now you don't have to take propecia for the rest of your life).

 

[asolof]

Molecular Help,

ANYTHING that causes scalp inflamation (infection, autoimmunity, eczema, trauma, thermal injury, etc. can result in hairloss. Those conditions that result in chronic inflammation can result in chronic hairloss. If the inflammation results in scarring of the follicles, then the hairloss is permanent, otherwise it is temporary.

The degree of hairloss is proportional to the severity of the inflammation and the size of the area affected.

 

[Molecular Help]

Well he said he went through a shed on finasteride. So it is possible that that might be actually helping him as well. I just wondered if maybe this was a case of the accompanying inflammation that so often comes with male pattern baldness, and not the cause of it. Otherwise it's just a good cooincidense for this guy that he had inflammation on top and no where else.

 

[need_hair04]

ASOLOF & Molecular Help, first of all thanks for ansering this post, you guys seem to be the most knowledgable when it comes to these kinds of things!!

I got a haircut today and my hair is now pretty short.. bout 1cm in length and i couldnt be more sure that my hairline HASNT changed at all, I had this hairline since I was 12!! I guess this is good news since I shouldnt go compelely bald anytime soon I GUESS :shock:

Anyway I came up with a theory about the inflamation and i need your or anyone else's input on this. Before propecia and during my extreme inflamation and redness, and of course SHEDDING I had an extremely oily scalp and face. I've read that the excess sebum or oil is a direct effect of DHT. AFTER proscar and Nizoral and T-Gel, with Tea Tree Oil (occasionally) not only did my Seborrea go away but so did my oily face and scalp. Comparing Now to then there is a DRAMATIC difference in oil production!! WIth this i get MUCH less acne as well. What I'm trying to get at here is that could it be possible that finasteride is actually helping me by reducing DHT and thus less sebum, resulting in less Seborrea and inflamation???

This is just an off the wall theory but it might be a possibility!! I've found a web site that proves there is a link to seborrea and hairloss CAUSED by inflamation.. http://www.keratin.net/forums/viewforum.php?f=5

Another question is if I get off proscar, how long would it take before i could possibly KNOW FOR SURE whether I dont need finasteride to keep my hair.. I know they say you'll loose anything you gained within 12 months, but i got nothing to loose just a fear that my shedding will come right back and take my hair for good!!

let me know on your thoughts regarding this!!

 

[asolof]

need_hair04,

Finasteride does not cause or treat seborrhea. Anti-seborrhea treatments are used in conjunction with finasteride to control seborrhea which can itself cause/exacerbate hairloss. Topical ketoconazole (nizoral) also has a weak anti-DHT effect.

Cripes, even if finasteride helped seborrhea (which it doesn't), a lifetime treatment with hormone manipulation would seem to be going to unnecessary extremes to control it.

So, again, if I were you, I would stop the finasteride.

 

[need_hair04]

asolof, I will take your advice and stop proscar for a while and see what happens!

My cousin who's been on finasteride for 6 years tried to see how long he could go without it and after 2 weeks his hair loss came back!! We'll see if this happens to me!

one more thing, should I expect some sort of shed from stopping finasteride in the following months that would resolve itself ??? just wondering so I dont freak out if this happens to me!

thanks for the advice!

 

[asolof]

Since you don't have male pattern baldness it is unlikely finasteride is having any effect on your hair growth or frequency of shedding. So, if you shed more than your average amount, I would assume it is for some other reason. I would wait until you can at least see either hairline recession or thinning before you consider finasteride. At least then you will have documented real hairloss. The shedding is irrelevant if the regrowth rate keeps up with it and there is no net hairloss.

 

[need_hair04]

well its been about 10 days since I've stopped taking Finasteride, and so far the shedding has still not returned!! HOWEVER I beginning to develope a SERIOUS case of inflamation again!!

This is becoming the exact same thing that I went through before Finasteride!! The redness and extreme itching is coming back although not full force yet but its seems to be progressing rapidly!! So all thats left is for the shedding to come back and back I'll be on finasteride again!!

I REALLY dont get why this is happening, I've been using Nizoral every other day with 2 different kinds of T-gel on the off days (original, and 3% salyctic acid) and NOTHING is helping!! So what can I do, has anyone ever experienced something like this and how is it possible to get ride of this??

 

[asolof]

I'd suggest you have your family doctor or a dermatologist take a look at your scalp since you have not been able to control the inflammation with what should be effective anti-seborrhea treatments.

 

[jimmystanley]

there are no effective seborrhea treatments. just keep ur scalp really clean.

 

[need_hair04]

well I have gone to the doctor more than once regarding this, and both times I was prescribed nizoral which worked then lost some of its affectiveness overall.

And just like JimmyStanley said there is NO CURE for seborrea, it stays for a while and goes away with time. I've done research and the only other options I might have is steriod injections or lotions that thin your skin over time so I'll be sure to stay away from them!

For now I'm goin to try selsun Blue which contains Selenium Sulfide which is suppost to be as affective as Nizoral in treating seborrhea. Other than this I will take supplements of B-12, B-6, Follic acid and see where this gets me.

anyone know of any other effective treatments??