shedding vs thinning

[SadMom]

I read on a hairloss site about the distinction between shedding and thinning. It basically said that shedding (lots of hair in the shower, hairbrush, while styling, on your clothes) is a sign of Telogen Effluvium, while thinning (reduced quality of hairs, but not shedding) is a sign of Androgenetic Alopecia. Is it that black and white?

I've lost a lot of hair postpartum that never came back. I've had several heavy sheds since then. The highest at over 120 a day (I never had a thick full head of hair, so that's a lot). Now, I'm down to around 70 each morning, but before all this started, I never had hairs coming out by the handfuls and on my shoulders all day. I can always get hair when I run my hands through it.

Doesn't that mean I'm shedding, and not thinning? Yet, a biopsy said I had miniturized hairs. Which would mean thinning. Was this info wrong? Can you have shedding and thinning with Androgenetic Alopecia?

 

[Guest]

Sadmom,

First off, just wanted to point out that the amount of hair you are losing per day is normal. People lose 50 - 100 hairs a day, and if you are losing 70, it makes you well within the range of normal

It is very common to experience a telogen effluvium postpartum, that would explain your hair shedding after pregnancy.

Unfortunately if you have a genetic predisposition of androgenetic alopecia, Telogen Effluvium can unmask or trigger it, even if it was previously unrecognized or dormant. Therefore the presence of miniaturized hairs or miniaturization points to androgenetic alopecia, as it is not a characteristic of Telogen Effluvium.

Hope this helps a bit.

Laura

 

[Guest]

First off, just wanted to point out that the amount of hair you are losing per day is normal. People lose 50 - 100 hairs a day, and if you are losing 70, it makes you well within the range of normal


I keep reading that. But, I don't remember being able to pull loose hairs out whenever I ran my hands through my hair. Plus, even the biopsy states there's a large number of telogen hairs.



It is very common to experience a telogen effluvium postpartum, that would explain your hair shedding after pregnancy.


Yes, but it's been 17 mo since then. I shed for about 4 mo afterwards, which I knew to expect. But then, after 3 months of *normal* shedding, it went crazy again. When I was nearly 12 mo pp. I didn't think it was still normal to have it come and go then.


Unfortunately if you have a genetic predisposition of androgenetic alopecia, Telogen Effluvium can unmask or trigger it, even if it was previously unrecognized or dormant. Therefore the presence of miniaturized hairs or miniaturization points to androgenetic alopecia, as it is not a characteristic of Telogen Effluvium.

I have no family history of Androgenetic Alopecia at all. But, I think there's some horomone imbalances going on that are contributing.

Hope this helps a bit.

Not my outlook and hopes for regrowth! But.... what are you gonna do.

 

[HairlossTalk]

The bottom line here is that there is no definitive diagnostic test for women's hair loss. It is as much a guessing game for doctors as it is for lay people. Educated guesses are helpful, and reading the "signs" and "trends" of your particular situation will also help.

Trying to determine whether this is Telogen Effluvium or Androgenetic Alopecia may just drive you insane. The fact is, Telogen Effluvium is experienced with Androgenetic Alopecia and Androgenetic Alopecia can look like Telogen Effluvium. Unless you're working with an electron microscope and analyzing your growth and resting cycles with one on a daily basis for several months, you can't really definitively know which it is.

Ask yourself what the value is of knowing if you have one or the other. What would you do differently? The treatment regimen for a woman with Telogen Effluvium is to use a growth stimulant like Minoxidil. The treatment regimen for a woman with Androgenetic Alopecia is to use a growth stimulant ... like Minoxidil.

Really, the only value of knowing which is which, is to maybe have different expectations on whether this will reverse itself over time, or not. If you experienced noticeable loss after pregnancy, this is incredibly common, and it makes absolute total sense to attribute it to the pregnancy. This type of hair loss is 99% of the time automatically reversible, but there are women who have a different hormonal balance after pregnancy as well, and this can lead to ongoing issues with hair.

In this sense, Androgenetic Alopecia could technically be "acquired". Pregnancy does a number on a woman's body. My mother's hair literally went from totally straight, to curly, after she had me. It has remained so until this day, 30 years later. This is a condition where everyone is different, and they for the most part don't have a damn clue as to how to cure it. There just a bunch of maybe's and the maybe's work a lot of the time.

If you're concerned about imbalances, simply have an endocrinologist run a full set of tests on your thyroid and other hormonally related functions and levels.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[teester]

Telogen Effluvium or Androgenetic Alopecia

Thank you Laura and HairLossTalk.com. You have cleared things up for me. 2 years after my 2nd child my hair has been falling out. 200-300/day. I went to a specialist. Just taking my history and seeing the root bulb on the hair that comes loose from my head the Dr. said Androgenetic Alopecia. So I opted not to go any further to determine if it is Androgenetic Alopecia or Telogen Effluvium. The treatments are the same. I got excited or hopeful the other day. Someone posted something about the importants of bood work and biopsy and I even went to far to reschedule my biopsy apt. I am now back to my original thoughts. I know I am not up for the treatments. My husband is not to happy about the expense. It is going to go anyway. The sooner I can get to a place and deal with this devastation the better off I will be. Hoping to wake up some day to a full head of hair while using Minoxil will only drive me crazy.
Sad Mom I do feel your pain. This is not fair. Just like the chance I have to win the lotto I do secretely hope theydiscover a cure. A magic Pill. Wouldn't that be nice. teester

 

[SadMom]

First of all, I know that technically my hairloss is in the normal range. However, it isn't normal for me. I never lost such handfuls of hair before my pregnancy, or had it shedding on me all day. Also, since I have such thin hair now, my ponytail isn't quite even dime sized, proportionally it seems it's still quite a lot to loose. My 13 yo dd with extremely thick hair doesn't lose that many.

I guess the reason it matters to me is because so far all my lab work has been *normal*. Although what does that really mean? Unless you test every single horomone and look at ratios, etc..... how do you really know the lab values are normal for you?

The other reason is because if I have an androgen problem I would very much like to clear that up internally as it can have other health consequences besides my hair falling out and balding. The Rogaine would just be forcing my hair to grow (if I'm in that lucky 12%) in spite of these problems where if I could solve the underlying problem, maybe I'd have some real success. The treatments aren't the same. Rogaine is suggested for both. But if you have Telogen Effluvium, you don't need to worry that you have excess male horomones which could suggest PCOS, adrenal problems, insulin or diabetes issues, etc.....

 

[Rozzy252]

Well SadMom...I feel your pain. I have Androgenetic Alopecia and my hair is freaking shedding like crazy. Okay...so 70 hairs in the shower may be what someone else might lose in one day. I lose 70 hairs in the shower too. And then for the rest of the day...I'm pulling loose hair off my shirt or its obiously dangling from my hair.....70 + whatever is lost during the day... I'm sure is >100 healthy loss. So when you said that you are losing like 70 hairs in the shower....I'm on your side....that is not normal. I've lost 30% of my hair this year alone.... and the same thing is happening to me as what is happening to you.....Damn pcos....I would gladly donate my ovaries tomorrow and go on supplements than deal with this.....