Shutting Down Th2 Cytokines Entirely

[westonci]

this was posted on another forum

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leukotriene E4 activates human Th2 cells for exaggerated pro-inflammatory cytokine production in response to PGD2


We found that cysLTs markedly potentiated pro-inflammatory cytokine production from human Th2 cells in response to PGD2. The potency of LTE4 in the enhancing effect was significantly higher than that of LTD4 or LTC4 and this enhancing effect of LTE4 was inhibited by montelukast. Although the CRTH2 antagonist TM30089 alone substantially inhibited IL-13 production in response to both exogenous and endogenous PGD2 and LTE4, a combination of TM30089 and montelukast was required to completely inhibit the response.

In other words, montelukast/zafirlukast and a CRTH2 antagonist is just about one of the most nuclear synergies you can get in regards to male pattern baldness. Add in an anti-androgen, and you've essentially shut down the entire male pattern baldness process.

I'm currently on TM, montelukast dutasteride and pyrithone zinc shampoo, and my hair has never felt this good and shedded the least since before I started thinning or receding ever.

I'm also using taking CLA 10,12 rally daily and dermastamping in some of the stuff once or twice a month, and the sparse hairs in front of my transplanted hairline have gone fully terminal. At this point it's hard to distinguish between the the native and transplanted hair in that are, except the native hairs have had less time to thrive in the anagen phase and reach the same length as the transplanted ones.

 

[jgray201]

Do you know if he is taking TM orally or topically?

 

[Giiizmo]

I hope you'll have success with your new regimen. Please keep us updated!

By the way, I don't know how much useful zinc pyrithione is for you but I'd consider substituting it for something else. I haven't read anything that's convinced me that the stuff is actually beneficial for Androgenetic Alopecia. The couple of times I tried it, that crap burned like napalm after only a few seconds of application. Maybe it's because I'm very susceptible to this kind of effect: "The topical antimicrobial zinc pyrithione is a heat shock response inducer that causes DNA damage and PARP-dependent energy crisis in human skin cells".

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866994/

 

[jgray201]

Also hate to sound like a broken record but im sure i remember reading that cetirizine has an effect on cytokine production.

 

[bgt]

You re sleeping fine with tm30089?

 

[westonci]

Sorry i should clarify. Thats not me, im just posting what some guy on an italian forum posted.

 

[Nextjohns]

I’m taking 400mg Seti ed and finasteride every 3 days and it’s going good. Had to reduce finasteride because of bad sides though, but the combination seems strong.

 

[Nextjohns]

Oh also taking aspirin, caffeine and P5P tablets. Reducing Pgd2 and prolactin.
Seti has no sides for me. But without finasteride I simply don’t think it is enough.

 

[Sanchez1234]

@westonci u gonna take montelukast in combination with your current seti pge2 protocol?

 

[Vinc2097]

Also hate to sound like a broken record but im sure i remember reading that cetirizine has an effect on cytokine production.

is this good or bad ? i dont know whats cytokine,.. thanks

 

[kawnshawn]

this was posted on another forum

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leukotriene E4 activates human Th2 cells for exaggerated pro-inflammatory cytokine production in response to PGD2


We found that cysLTs markedly potentiated pro-inflammatory cytokine production from human Th2 cells in response to PGD2. The potency of LTE4 in the enhancing effect was significantly higher than that of LTD4 or LTC4 and this enhancing effect of LTE4 was inhibited by . Although the CRTH2 antagonist TM30089 alone substantially inhibited IL-13 production in response to both exogenous and endogenous PGD2 and LTE4, a combination of TM30089 and montelukast was required to completely inhibit the response.

In other words, montelukast/zafirlukast and a CRTH2 antagonist is just about one of the most nuclear synergies you can get in regards to male pattern baldness. Add in an anti-androgen, and you've essentially shut down the entire male pattern baldness process.

I'm currently on TM, montelukast dutasteride and pyrithone zinc shampoo, and my hair has never felt this good and shedded the least since before I started thinning or receding ever.

I'm also using taking CLA 10,12 rally daily and dermastamping in some of the stuff once or twice a month, and the sparse hairs in front of my transplanted hairline have gone fully terminal. At this point it's hard to distinguish between the the native and transplanted hair in that are, except the native hairs have had less time to thrive in the anagen phase and reach the same length as the transplanted ones.

From my rough understanding this actually does seem like it could be very beneficial if you believe the PGD2 theory behind Androgenetic Alopecia hairloss. Studies show PGD2 inhibits hair loss but with a receptor antagonist like seti PGD2 can't bind to the receptor to stop hair growth. Montelukast prevents Mast Cells degranulation so PGD2 isn't even released to begin with. seems like both would be an excellent combo

 

[kawnshawn]

Also hate to sound like a broken record but im sure i remember reading that cetirizine has an effect on cytokine production.

If I recall correctly a study found that cetirizine affects pge2 and pgd2 negatively. PGE2 is very important to hair.

 

[jnestor481]

Is there a reliable online source for montelukast?

 

[jgray201]

If I recall correctly a study found that cetirizine affects pge2 and pgd2 negatively. PGE2 is very important to hair.

I would be interested to see the study? I have only ever seen evidence to the contrary.

 

[Vinc2097]

If I recall correctly a study found that cetirizine affects pge2 and pgd2 negatively. PGE2 is very important to hair.

well i guess i'll have to stop using it ...

 

[jgray201]

If I recall correctly a study found that cetirizine affects pge2 and pgd2 negatively. PGE2 is very important to hair.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567576904000505

"It induces the release of PGE2, a suppressor of antigen presentation and MHC class II expression, from monocyte/macrophages and reduces the number of tryptase positive mast cells in inflammation sites"

http://www.jimmunol.org/content/184/2/677#ref-48

"Reports from various other groups support our findings that PGE2 may have anti-inflammatory effects in certain autoimmune diseases (20, 47). Furthermore, drugs that induce the release of PGE2, such as cetirizine, were also described to exert beneficial effects in a series of autoimmune disorders"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7741033

'Cetirizine (0.1-10 micrograms/ml) enhanced PGE2 release by resting human monocytes. Concentrations of 1 and 10 micrograms/ml enhanced PGE2 release by LPS-stimulated monocytes, and by healthy and inflamed rat macrophages'

Some of these may just be references, but Cetirizine's anti-inflammatory effects seems to be accepted in all of these. There are also a number of references to effect on Cytokines but i'll be honest I don't really understand this.

 

[kawnshawn]

I would be interested to see the study? I have only ever seen evidence to the contrary.

As I said if I recall correctly. This was on hair site years ago in a thread.

 

[Vinc2097]

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567576904000505

"It induces the release of PGE2, a suppressor of antigen presentation and MHC class II expression, from monocyte/macrophages and reduces the number of tryptase positive mast cells in inflammation sites"

http://www.jimmunol.org/content/184/2/677#ref-48

"Reports from various other groups support our findings that PGE2 may have anti-inflammatory effects in certain autoimmune diseases (20, 47). Furthermore, drugs that induce the release of PGE2, such as cetirizine, were also described to exert beneficial effects in a series of autoimmune disorders"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7741033

'Cetirizine (0.1-10 micrograms/ml) enhanced PGE2 release by resting human monocytes. Concentrations of 1 and 10 micrograms/ml enhanced PGE2 release by LPS-stimulated monocytes, and by healthy and inflamed rat macrophages'

Some of these may just be references, but Cetirizine's anti-inflammatory effects seems to be accepted in all of these. There are also a number of references to effect on Cytokines but i'll be honest I don't really understand this.

Is this studies taking cetirizine orally or topically ? ... basically i heard both about topical cetirizine.. puting something on my scalp which we dont actually really know if it inhibit pge2 or not is taking a big guess..

 

[jgray201]

But thats the thing based on current information it is not really a guess there are a number of studies showing it induces the release of pge2. Not to mention a specific study for hairloss which demonstrated that it is effective. The only counter evidence is someone saying they once recall seeing a study that said it reduces pge2.

 

[jgray201]

I dont know to be honest. I think the vehicle is really important with cetirizine and of course you need to try it for six months. I imagine that if you wanted to take it orally you might need to take a much higher dosage than the recommended. Like Seti.
Topically i use it 2% and it helps. I dissolve 240mg of cet powder in 6ml distilled water. I then slowly add 2ml PG and about 4ml of neogenic capsule. This is the current vehicle i am using and it works well. Not greasy at all. Batches only last 4 to 5 days which is good as apparently cetirizine can degraded in ethanol.