Gadgetine

Success With " The Ultimate Stack" Inspired Regimine

Monkeys

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I started on a topical regimine about 4 months ago which was inspired by a thread here title "The Ultimate Stack For Fighting Hairloss".

My regimine is as follows:

Finasteride 1mg daily (been taking this for a little over 2 years now)

Topical (20ml batches)
RU58841 - 0.8g
Desloratidine - 0.2g
Niacinamide - 1.0g
Dissolved in 20ml Ganier stemoxydine (just a cheap carrier really, I doubt the stemox is doing anything, but you never know)

2 ml applied to male pattern baldness area in the mornings after showering, another 1ml applied in the evenings at least 30min before bed.

About 2 years ago I was at about an NW2.5 (long temples and very noticeable thinning on the crown, no slick bald areas though) with fairly severe thinning through the main male pattern baldness area (above temples, top and crown).

I started on finasteride and minoxidil, used minoxidil for about 4 months and it worked really well but made my face look like sh*t (puffy, wrinkly). Stopped minoxidil and shed back a bit but kept some improvement due to the finasteride which seemed to improve density slightly overall and stop progression (or slow right down).

Finally started on a the topical above 4 months ago and have since seen dramatic improvement. Density in all the thinning areas has improved to about 60% of normal (still noticable, but doesn't look too bad, I can wear my hair however I like and it looks OK) and my temples have grown back in along my hairline by about 1cm along the front, the hairline in general is more solid and natural looking overall.

I don't have much in the way of progress pictures, but I will post what I can to show the results following this post. I just wanted to share my story with others here to show that, for me at least, this multi-faceted approach has worked quite well.
 

Monkeys

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I have had a few minor sides.

- Worse sides were when starting Finasteride I got ball-ache for about 2 months and watery jizz, maybe some minor erection issues (might have been just stress though, I was freaking out about starting it). But that all went away and returned to normal after about 2 months and I haven't had any problems since with finasteride. I have a feeling it may have slightly reduced my libido overall, but not to a point that bothers me at all, it is still plenty strong enough to work with.

- As mentioned in prevous post, minoxidil gave me really bad face issues. I might have been using too much, but the face issues made me stop straight away. I hated using the stuff anyway, as an everyday topical for me it was just too nasty to have on my head all the time, too much residue.

- Starting on the topical I again think I might have had another hit to my libido for a while, for maybe a month after starting it. I suspect it would be the RU going systemic. However this seems to have returned to normal again now and currrently I get no noticable sides from any of my regimine.

I suspect that, for my body at least, there is a fairly strong capacity to overcome changes in androgen activity levels systemically and that although I get sides initially, my body adjusts and most things return to normal after about 1-2 months. I'm probably just lucky in that regard, but I feel like people should consider persevering with certain anti-androgens even if they are getting minor sides initially, because there is a chance your body will balance back out and the sides will reduce or go away entirely after a while.

- Oh also, one positive side I have found since starting Finasteride is that I actually now find I can gain muscle through training much easier! This was really noticable from a about 2 months after starting it. I have always been a little bit on the skinny side, not majorly but a little bit, and found it difficult to gain muscle through fairly dedicated weight training. However in the 4 months after starting finasteride I gained about 2-3kgs of muscle without even doing any training at all, just living my normal relatively sedintary life. Also recently I have started weight training again and find that I can actually gain muscle at a relatively normal rate now as long as a follow a good training schedule. I haven't had my hormone levels tested but I suspect that finasteride is increasing my free T and thats allowing my body to function a bit more (normally?) in that regard.
 

Monkeys

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One other thing I should add, is that with the topical regimine I think the twice daily application is very important for it to be effective.

I get the classic "male pattern baldness itch", and as annoying as it is I've actually found it to be a really good gauge on what is working and in terms of reducing the inflammatory processes in the scalp.

I've found that if I miss my nightly application, by the next morning the itch will be back. If I miss several nightly applications in a row, or worse yet several days in a row, I will get a bit of shedding for a week or so until I stay solid with my regimine again.

I think it really pays to be vigilant with this regimine and apply every 12 hours without fail, otherwise the inflamation is allowed to return, and the follicle damage resumes..
 

Jakejr

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Nice, I think there’s something to stemoxidyne. I got their shampoo & topical & I’ve seen some increased density.
 

Murkey Thumb

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I like this stack and can see why it works for you as basically your nuking the DHT internally and externally. If you can tolerate finasteride I can see this working very well for everybody.
 

furrydome

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RU58841 - 0.8g
Desloratidine - 0.2g
Niacinamide - 1.0g
Dissolved in 20ml Ganier stemoxydine (just a cheap carrier really, I doubt the stemox is doing anything, but you never know)

Where are you sourcing your Desloratidine and Niacinamide - anywhere reputable?

Also it's surprising you got such results without wounding... have you considered trying that? It might reduce your dependence on the chemicals.
 

layabout

Experienced Member
My Regimen
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620
Where are you sourcing your Desloratidine and Niacinamide - anywhere reputable?

Also it's surprising you got such results without wounding... have you considered trying that? It might reduce your dependence on the chemicals.
niacinamide is literally just a vitamin dude
 

Monkeys

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Desloratidine i got from rechemco on alibaba, and niacinamide off ebay.

I have considered dermarolling or stamping but I'd rather avoid it if I can help it!
 

Seuxin

Experienced Member
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Desloratidine is like Cetirizine no ? Strange, lot of people tried it whitout success.
And is not niacinamide bad ( related to pgd2 flush ?)
 

kiwipilu

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Desloratidine is like Cetirizine no ? Strange, lot of people tried it whitout success.
And is not niacinamide bad ( related to pgd2 flush ?)

I read somewhere deslo is stable in alchohol and cetirizine degrades in alcohol. people use ceti, which is cheaper and available otc in most countries, dissolves in water but obviously that's not the the best vehicle as we know.
 

JonnyGo

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I started on a topical regimine about 4 months ago which was inspired by a thread here title "The Ultimate Stack For Fighting Hairloss".

My regimine is as follows:

Finasteride 1mg daily (been taking this for a little over 2 years now)

Topical (20ml batches)
RU58841 - 0.8g
Desloratidine - 0.2g
Niacinamide - 1.0g
Dissolved in 20ml Ganier stemoxydine (just a cheap carrier really, I doubt the stemox is doing anything, but you never know)

2 ml applied to male pattern baldness area in the mornings after showering, another 1ml applied in the evenings at least 30min before bed.

About 2 years ago I was at about an NW2.5 (long temples and very noticeable thinning on the crown, no slick bald areas though) with fairly severe thinning through the main male pattern baldness area (above temples, top and crown).

I started on finasteride and minoxidil, used minoxidil for about 4 months and it worked really well but made my face look like sh*t (puffy, wrinkly). Stopped minoxidil and shed back a bit but kept some improvement due to the finasteride which seemed to improve density slightly overall and stop progression (or slow right down).

Finally started on a the topical above 4 months ago and have since seen dramatic improvement. Density in all the thinning areas has improved to about 60% of normal (still noticable, but doesn't look too bad, I can wear my hair however I like and it looks OK) and my temples have grown back in along my hairline by about 1cm along the front, the hairline in general is more solid and natural looking overall.

I don't have much in the way of progress pictures, but I will post what I can to show the results following this post. I just wanted to share my story with others here to show that, for me at least, this multi-faceted approach has worked quite well.
Any pics?
 

Monkeys

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This is the post from the user IdealForehead that describes the theory

"
I don't think that diagram is sufficientlycomplex to allow for it to illustrate the "ultimate stack". That diagram is a marketing gimmick for seti. It doesn't remotely encompass how complex hair loss is.

But if you want to put together a nuclear "kitchen sink" approach, with the strongest agent from every class, while still controlling side effects to possibly tolerable levels, this would be it in my opinion...

ULTIMATE HAIR LOSS AGENTS BY CLASS
  • Androgen Receptor Antagonist
    • Mechanism: Blocks DHT and testosterone from binding to androgen receptors
    • Agent: Topical Darolumatide
    • Rationale: Strongest medication in the entire drug class, does not cross blood brain barrier, topical use focuses effect at the scalp and should reduce systemic side effects
  • 5-AR Inhibitor
    • Mechanism: Reduces DHT levels by blocking 5-AR enzyme
    • Agent: Dutasteride
    • Rationale: Reduces serum DHT by 95%
  • Anti-Histamine
    • Mechanism: Decreases PGD2 as well as many other downstream inflammatory mediators triggered by androgen binding, likely should help male pattern baldness itch
    • Agent: Topical Desloratadine
    • Rationale: Cetirizine has better evidence but has potential stability problems in ethanol based solutions
  • PGD2 Inhibitor
    • Mechanism: Blocks PGD2 which is one downstream mediator of inflammation triggered by androgen binding
    • Agent: Oral Setipiprant
    • Rationale: No published evidence for any drug in this class yet exists, but at least we have some field reports from people trying oral seti that have noticed benefits, and it seems to be safe so far.
  • Estrogen
    • Mechanism: ER-beta stimulation has many positive effects in the skin and can prolong anagen of hair follicles
    • Agent: Topical Estriol
    • Rationale: Estriol has the greatest ER-beta predominance of all natural estrogens. Topical administration avoids excessive liver metabolism, reducing risks, and allows the effect to be focused at the scalp.
  • Prostaglandin Stimulant
    • Mechanism: Manipulation of prostaglandin signalling, particularly towards PGE2 can promote hair growth through inflammation
    • Agent: Oral Minoxidil
    • Rationale: Minoxidil is the best proven growth stimulant on the planet. Topical concentrations are limited to 5% traditionally due to poor solubility. Oral dosing allows greater delivery to the follicles, but with more side effects and risks.
  • Stem Cell Stimulant
    • Mechanism: Wounding in combination with growth stimulants triggers a stem cell response which leads to follicle neogenesis.
    • Agent: PRP
    • Rationale: PRP combines traditional wounding with the injection of natural growth stimulants from your own centrifuged blood and has good published evidence
  • Tension Reducer
    • Mechanism: Therapies to reduce scalp tension reduce tension-mediated androgenic inflammation and improve blood flow to the scalp
    • Agent: Botox
    • Rationale: Two sessions of scalp muscle Botox spaced 6 months apart gave equal results to finasteride by 1 year in one published study
"
 

Monkeys

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I think the key with this approach is that the hairloss cascade is complex. Targeting a single part of the cascade alone is so often ineffective because other parts of the cascade will simply respond and upregulate. By inhibiting several aspects of the cascade at once, you limit the capacity for the system to upregulate.
 

furrydome

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I've found that if I miss my nightly application, by the next morning the itch will be back. If I miss several nightly applications in a row, or worse yet several days in a row, I will get a bit of shedding for a week or so until I stay solid with my regimine again.

I think it really pays to be vigilant with this regimine and apply every 12 hours without fail, otherwise the inflamation is allowed to return, and the follicle damage resumes..

Some personal anecdata - I saw a noticeable increase in growth when going from RU 1x/day to 2x/day, but have switched back to 1x/day and am still seeing (very slow) regrowth. Same with minoxidil - switched to 1x/day but still making slow progress. This was about 8 months ago, and stopped wounding at that same time.

Planning to start wounding again and maybe tweak the topicals a bit (sandalore? desloratidine? niacinamide?). Can report back in a few months if anyone's interested.
 
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