Support for Anti-aromatase with dutasteride/finasteride

[VT28]

I've got some long posts that describe my problems in rambling detail elsewhere in the forums if anyone is inclined to read them.

Since I write too much I'll keep this real short. I've had scalp pain and dry, oily itchy skin with my hairloss. I have felt shitty everyday for the past five years because of this.

Nothing helped. I just took Avodart for one month, stopping two weeks ago. Had a muscle ache like feeling in my chest. Asked for lab tests and got the following:

Estradiol and Estrone - 19 pg/mL (Ref Range: 10-50)
Estrone, Serum - 34 pg/mL (Ref Range: 15-65)
DHT - 29 ng/dL (Ref Range: 25-75)
Estrogen, Total Serum - 223 pg/mL (Ref Range: < 130)

My derm ordered this stuff for me at my request. Neither he nor my endocrinologist know how to interperate this other than to say stop the Avodart. My endocrinologist said she would have only ordered Estradiol and Estrone and didn't even know what all estrogen, total serum was measuring and would have to look into it. Had it not been for my complaints she said she probably would not have been concerned.

Aside from now having to have what I'm almost certain is a slight case of gyno corrected (bye bye $$$$ or should I say hello loan) I have another problem. Avodart worked. Even now two weeks later (long half-life I know) my skin feels normal. Scalp pain is a little less, I was hoping that would improve the longer I was on the drug.

After years of searching for something to make me feel better I've found something that helps but I can't take it. I've seen plenty of posts about antiaromatases here and on bodybuilding boards. What I haven't found yet is anything that any doctor would be willing to listen too. I need info that's backed up by more than the fact that the guy who posted it can bench 450.

Obviously, my endo has never dealt with a problem like this before. She is looking for someone who might be more help to me and I have a few leads including some university physicians. She agrees that the DHT-blocker, anti-aromatase idea makes sense but does not want to experiment without some input from someone with some experience.

Has anyone seen anything to support this approach? This problem has to occur in men taking Avodart for prostrate problems! What do they do?

 

[docj077]

You're in a catch 22, my friend. Decrease your dutasteride. intake and don't use aromatase inhibitors.

Contrary to what to what most people believe, both testosterone and DHT are capable of causing hair loss. Testosterone just does it slower and you'll end up increasing it off the charts until your body corrects your obvious pharmacological and physiological mistake for you.

Don't screw with your hormones even more.

 

[NYVic20]

Um.. Have you tried taking Propecia/finasteride before you jumped on the Avodart/dutasteride bandwagon. finasteride prevents around 60% of dht from forming in your scalp and in the places most vulnerable to male pattern baldness which is your hair follicles. And although taking dutasteride will prevent an additional 20-30% (since it also blocks 5AR type 1), it is much more powerful than 5x times the dosage of 1mg finasteride which means you have much more of a chance at getting sides with Avodart than Propecia. I think you should stop Avodart and get on Propecia/finasteride right away and see if your sides go away.

 

[VT28]

Strange thing about finasteride...

Back in 2001-2002 I took Propecia for over 1 year. No change in scalp pain, or the progression of "normal" hairs being replaced by coarse black ones, or none at all. Greasy forehead, more acne and terrible pain at the hairline as it quickly receeded. All of these could have happened because of or in spite of the finasteride. But NO sexual sides, gyno, ect! None.

Stopped it because I didn't think it was having any affect - scalp still hurt like hell and was still loosing.

Tried Proscar (roughly 1/4 per day, figured the loss in cutting made it really = 1/5) in Aug 2006 for about two weeks and got the same chest ache I had on Avodart. Stopped it.

So, why the difference. Propecia vs Proscar shouldn't make a difference so I'm inclined to think its something different in me. Avodart stopped my skin from feeling so dirty and itchy which finasteride did not the first time I took it. Would it had I continued with the Proscar and would I have had the same sides I got with dutasteride? Who knows. I wonder if the effect on the itchiness and oiliness of the skin had more to do with dutasteride's ability to inhibit 5-AR type I activity rather than the total DHT reduction.

BTW, dutasteride.com reports a median reduction in serum DHT after 1 week of 85%. My lab tests were done at around 1.5 weeks and my DHT was 29 ng/dL (ref range 25-75). If there was an 85% reducction in my case (which there probably was not), that would have meant my pre-dutasteride DHT level was around 185 ng/dL.

It just entered my mind that I was on Welbutrin when taking the Proscar and the Avodart. I believe it read it can elevate prolactin levels and mine was slightly high. Need to look into this.

Anyway, yea I've tried finasteride. Yeah I know about all the other treatments that have some proof behind them. I need to dig into this deeper because its doing more to me than a little hairloss. And I say a little because I see some pics of you guys and you've lost almost nothing. Of course if I was in your position I'd still be searching for help to get back to normal. But I'm a mess without any doctors who know a damn thing. Plus now the Avodart is still in my system so my skin is clear and I try to tell doctors about how bad the acne was and they think I'm crazy.

 

[VT28]

And as far as a low dutasteride dosage, say that has the effect of raising my estrogen levels only slightly rather than enormously like a regular dose did. Would that simply lead to gyno later as time went on?

And my big question, sigh, is how to test less dutasteride or anything else and monitor gyno as a side. See if it gets worse? That's just great. I already can feel something I didn't feel a few weeks ago. And yes my Doctor knows but says its nothing, he did agree with me at the last visit but I think only because I was really upset. So I assume I'm gonna have to have this sh*t cut out but I'm not gonna do that then test dutasteride again afterwards! So that means 1) my test for gyno is do I get more and 2) I have to wait until I've run out of ideas to have the current mess fixed. At least I don't think it looks like anything other than my being out of shape which is how I looked before.

You guys probably think I'm crazy with these rambling posts. And I am.