Taking care of your hair post-Hair Multiplication

[michael barry]

Im posting this in response to some of the whining I hear related to Intercytex's Paul Kemp interview on the phase two trials that are now in progress over in England. He has mentioned that folks need to stay on finasteride even after HM is here. There has been lots of bitching about this. SO....................I want you to think about Patrick Stewart of Star Treck, or Dr. Phil when you read what is below:





YOU HAVE BALDNESS> Look at an eighty year old bald man. The hair on the back and sides of his head is sparse and thin. A weak DONOR area. Even donor area hair is effected by testsoterone and its metabolites. Youre hair needs no testosterone AT ALL. NADA, none.

For this reason, even after cloning, it would be a good idea to stay on finasteride. The new hair made from your wreath hair still has a small suceptibility to male hormone. Propecia and nizoral should still be used. Topical anti-androgens that would do just as well as propecia and nizoral are most certainly being looked into that can block alpha five reductase activity in your scalp with no systemic side effects. Hopefully some of these things will be able to be delievered nanosomally in shampoo someday, and you'll have luxuriant hair growth until very old age.


Even if Curis, gene therapies, Hair Multiplication (cloning) comes down the pike (I believe cloning will be available within 5 years in some country on the planet almost certainly now), its a good idea to keep DHT away from your hair.....................your hair does not need it

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[HARM1]

"When asked about the age-old question of whether this type of cell therapy rejuvenates existing follicles or creates new ones, Dr. Kemp said it is not really their goal to understand how the new hairs are formed. It could very well be a combination of both"

He says the "new" hairs, may just be our old ones coming vack- --> old hairs --> DHT--> not good.

I do not understand, the DP cells are ther cells fron which hair falicles are made?

how do you know the new hairs contain the properties of donor area falicles?

 

[hairfin]

as long as you can maintain pretty thick hair till your 40 without finasteride i dont mind!

 

[Guest]

Doesn't bother me. I'll get HM for my front and little crown area. I'm already on dutasteride so I'll take it till I'm 80 and never go bald. It's just popping a pill-I'd hate a topical more. Yeah I've realized that maybe dutasteride is giving me soft a bit softer erections during sex, but I care about my hair more than that.

 

[person_123]

what if you are a bad responder to drugs? does that mean you can't use hm? or does that mean you can, but you'll just have thinner hairs?

 

[elguapo]

I used to think that I was responsive to drugs. I used to think that I was unresponsive to medications, until I begin using finasteride and minoxidil. I think the combo has helped me maintain quite well over the past 3 years.

I don't think HM will be like drugs in terms of responsiveness. But I'm not sure. I do wonder why those 2 out of the 7 original subjects did not regrow hair during Phase I clinical trials. But I'm sure they will come up with a valid way of testing whether or not anybody is going to respond positively to HM, if/when it comes out. Hopefully we'll hear that all 20 out of 20 patients regrew their hair during Phase II trials.

Good question, and I know where you are coming from: some people respond better to medication in general than others. But maybe HM will be different for those individuals, and maybe it will be completely independent of responsiveness to other drugs/medications. I think only these Phase II trials will provide an anser to this question.

 

[michael barry]

Hi Harm,


The Hair Multiplication forum at Hairsite.com has a few extremely knowledgeable posters concerning HM cell science. Their names are James Bond, a real scientist in bio, John the Revelator, a lawyer, and The Almighty God of Hairloss................who probably knows more about hair than anyone Ive run across.

They'd be able to answer that much better than me, but I'll take a stab based on the things Ive seen JTR say. The HM-rejuvinated hairs (lets assume they rejuvinate minitarized follicles, would have a *percentage of donor-area DNA and a *percentage of existing hair DNA within them. Whether ICX or Shishedo or Phoenixbio or Aderans will admit it or not, James Bond has pretty much clearly stated that the stem cell mixtures they multiply more-or-less HAVE to have some both dermal papilla cells, outer root sheath cells and a few STEM cells within the "mix". Without the stem cells present, as it is in embryological development, the signalling environment on the cellular level wont be conductive to "making" new hair (remember Ken Washenik of Aderans said they were going after follicular neogenisis----------which means "new hair".)

Its been mentioned in scientific articles that someday gene therapies consisting of specific genes and signalling pathway molecules and agonists will be placed on friendly viruses and topically applied to balding men. Viruses have the ability to imprint their DNA on host organisms. In this way, they someday should be able to imprint "good hair genes" on your balding hair genes, and voila'.................you grow a real coat up there. But thats supposedly decades away as the science there is complicated beyond belief and is considered Elaine Fuchs (a supergenius) territory.

Kemp stated that one would still need to be on propecia even after HM for this reason in all probability. The hair thats regenerated will probably have 50-60% donor hair characteristics on first "pass" (thats just a guess for an example). After it grows and cycles, I imagine one could pay for a second pass of injections and up the donor-area genetic composition of the DNA in the rejuvinated hair. What so many of us want is the hair we lost back because if I knew about hair then what I know now......................dont think I'da ever lost it. If you think about it just using sprio topically twice a day with finasteride would see your hair entertain very little male hormone. Add nizoral....................These newbies just starting to receed are really lucky. Keeping good hair ain't that hard, getting it back is a motherfucker. Anyhoo...................the percentage donor/regular hair scenario Ive outlined is speculative even according to JTR, but JTR seems to believe it. Im really excited about this test Harm. 900 inject sites over a large balding area, 100 in a small one centimeter really bald patch. We should get to know both possible scenario outcomes.

Kemp warned about DHT-damaged skin and whether HM could get hair growing up there. Ive taken alot of heat pointing out the immuno damage done to skin in male pattern baldness and how it thins out the skin (hair follicles dermal papillas reside at 4-6mm below the skin surface------and old very bald men dont have this much dermis left as the scalp loses a fatty layer and a water layer in the pathigenesis of male pattern baldness over time). This is why I think peptides and topical anti-androgens are a good idea for now...............an attempt to keep the skin in as good of shape as possible to create the most conductive environment for HM dermally as one can. Young guys like you dont have anything to worry about though..................Your skin isnt even fibrotic in receeded areas, etc. They wouldnt be for a long time. You see the liver spots and aged skin post-shiny scalp, and you might have a problem though.


Im hoping HM can do both resucitation of dormant vellus hairs and follicular neogenesis myself. We will know in about one year as 20 guys are participating in phase 2. There may (and probably will) be more than one phase 2. ICX is looking at other countries with more lax medical laws to get an earlier release date as England is going to regulate their protocol as a drug. May see it available in Eastern Europe somewhere in 2009-2010 if things go well. I'd like that.

There has not been much buzz about this, but Shishedo, a huge company, getting in the HM game is super news for men like us. They have beaucoup money and resources. Phoenixbio is also a large, well funded coroporation. Its amusing that tiny Intercytex, led by the worlds foremost tissue engineering scientist, Dr. Paul Kemp, is in the lead for this, but they are. Read James Bond's post about HM for the past 2-3 months at harisite and you'll know tons about this stuff. He's a brilliant man.

 

[hairfin]

damn, if you need propecia to maintain then it rules out all those who get cant take it due to sides!

 

[HARM1]

Hi Harm,


The Hair Multiplication forum at Hairsite.com has a few extremely knowledgeable posters concerning HM cell science. Their names are James Bond, a real scientist in bio, John the Revelator, a lawyer, and The Almighty God of Hairloss................who probably knows more about hair than anyone Ive run across.

They'd be able to answer that much better than me, but I'll take a stab based on the things Ive seen JTR say. The HM-rejuvinated hairs (lets assume they rejuvinate minitarized follicles, would have a *percentage of donor-area DNA and a *percentage of existing hair DNA within them. Whether ICX or Shishedo or Phoenixbio or Aderans will admit it or not, James Bond has pretty much clearly stated that the stem cell mixtures they multiply more-or-less HAVE to have some both dermal papilla cells, outer root sheath cells and a few STEM cells within the "mix". Without the stem cells present, as it is in embryological development, the signalling environment on the cellular level wont be conductive to "making" new hair (remember Ken Washenik of Aderans said they were going after follicular neogenisis----------which means "new hair".)

Its been mentioned in scientific articles that someday gene therapies consisting of specific genes and signalling pathway molecules and agonists will be placed on friendly viruses and topically applied to balding men. Viruses have the ability to imprint their DNA on host organisms. In this way, they someday should be able to imprint "good hair genes" on your balding hair genes, and voila'.................you grow a real coat up there. But thats supposedly decades away as the science there is complicated beyond belief and is considered Elaine Fuchs (a supergenius) territory.

Kemp stated that one would still need to be on propecia even after HM for this reason in all probability. The hair thats regenerated will probably have 50-60% donor hair characteristics on first "pass" (thats just a guess for an example). After it grows and cycles, I imagine one could pay for a second pass of injections and up the donor-area genetic composition of the DNA in the rejuvinated hair. What so many of us want is the hair we lost back because if I knew about hair then what I know now......................dont think I'da ever lost it. If you think about it just using sprio topically twice a day with finasteride would see your hair entertain very little male hormone. Add nizoral....................These newbies just starting to receed are really lucky. Keeping good hair ain't that hard, getting it back is a motherfucker. Anyhoo...................the percentage donor/regular hair scenario Ive outlined is speculative even according to JTR, but JTR seems to believe it. Im really excited about this test Harm. 900 inject sites over a large balding area, 100 in a small one centimeter really bald patch. We should get to know both possible scenario outcomes.

Kemp warned about DHT-damaged skin and whether HM could get hair growing up there. Ive taken alot of heat pointing out the immuno damage done to skin in male pattern baldness and how it thins out the skin (hair follicles dermal papillas reside at 4-6mm below the skin surface------and old very bald men dont have this much dermis left as the scalp loses a fatty layer and a water layer in the pathigenesis of male pattern baldness over time). This is why I think peptides and topical anti-androgens are a good idea for now...............an attempt to keep the skin in as good of shape as possible to create the most conductive environment for HM dermally as one can. Young guys like you dont have anything to worry about though..................Your skin isnt even fibrotic in receeded areas, etc. They wouldnt be for a long time. You see the liver spots and aged skin post-shiny scalp, and you might have a problem though.


Im hoping HM can do both resucitation of dormant vellus hairs and follicular neogenesis myself. We will know in about one year as 20 guys are participating in phase 2. There may (and probably will) be more than one phase 2. ICX is looking at other countries with more lax medical laws to get an earlier release date as England is going to regulate their protocol as a drug. May see it available in Eastern Europe somewhere in 2009-2010 if things go well. I'd like that.

There has not been much buzz about this, but Shishedo, a huge company, getting in the HM game is super news for men like us. They have beaucoup money and resources. Phoenixbio is also a large, well funded coroporation. Its amusing that tiny Intercytex, led by the worlds foremost tissue engineering scientist, Dr. Paul Kemp, is in the lead for this, but they are. Read James Bond's post about HM for the past 2-3 months at harisite and you'll know tons about this stuff. He's a brilliant man.

THX MAN. I'll go ovet to HS . I'LL tell you what I find strange: The fact that by now, they are still not sure what and how what they do is working. It sounds like they just stick some DP in you scalp and cross their fingures. I haope they are just playing dumb.