The Frequent "official" Origin Of My Recent Failures With Women

[Afro_Vacancy]

[Note: This thread is not an invitation to start flame wars].

I've met 20 or 30 women for dates in the past couple years. With effort, the first dates come. Sometimes they show up and I realize they're large and then I play dumb for the rest of the date, sometimes they're kind of boring, and sometimes I'm interested in meeting them again. As the forum regulars know, there is no overlap between the women interested in and the ones I'm interested in myself. Mutual interest is not a thing.

What I frequently get when I'm interested -- and it's not inconceivable as I only like smart women -- is that they're very busy. I had met a woman sometime n 2014, from OkCupid, but I had to leave town for an extended period just after she met. I met a wonderful woman in late 2015 off plentyoffish, our date lasted three or four hours and she laughed at my jokes and flirter and told me her life story and kissed me goodbye, but then a couple days later I was out of town for a week, and then by the time I got back she was out of town for a month.

A month ago I was excited to meet this girl off jswipe for a third date, we had kissed, etc. We had had a six-hour date together spanning three different activities, of which she only "had" to attend the first one. She was texting back enthusiastically. But then we cancelled, I was sick from a surgery, and she had a flu too. Got back in touch a few days later, the spark was gone. A few weeks later I was going to meet this woman off bumble, we were having a great conversation full of back and forth, but we both got sick at the same time, and then when I tried to reschedule, she said she had just started something with a guy a couple days before. I was going to meet yet another woman off bumble, the conversations were flowing great while I was out of town for nine days, we had several hour-long conversations on the phone, she was giving me compliments, texting me drunk talking about cuddling, asking me questions, etc. We scheduled a date. It got canceled today, she said she's very busy between her job, the charity she's running, her workouts, her dog, and her needing to find a new apartment. I know the spark had faded though, her attitude had changed.

So this keeps happening and I hate my f*****g life. If I were better looking or otherwise funnier it would go better. If I had better luck it might go better. The most likely assumption is that since I'm not very good looking, I need to be at 100%, and if I slip to 95%, or the woman meets somebody else, or we have a few days separation, POUF ! it's over.

And I don't even know if it's "impossible" though, maybe it's just bad luck on my part.

On this forum, we have two gorgeous women, @EvilLocks and @Pasbrillantebrunette, that I would definitely swipe right on. Let's leave aside the fact that both are being pursued by the uber-handsome @buckthorn. Regardless, I'm sure if I met them I'd be excited to meet them again. But I also know that both of them, from their own words on this website, have been lukewarm at best with respect to dating recently. I'm sure there are men in their lives much better looking than me, and they didn't want to date them either. Sometimes women are actually not in the mood to date, it's not necessarily about the guy in front of them, he might be totally fine, in our small community we prove the example of this reality in women not once but twice. And maybe I only like smart, busy women. And perhaps smart, busy women are the only women capable of liking me.

f***.

 

[Roberto_72]

This was a wonderful post.
Thank you for that.
You definitely like smart women and it is very likely that a smart woman will like you back. But you need patience because the right person might arrive after 8,10, 15 dates. On an average, 12 if I am not mistaken.

 

[CopeForLife]

eventually regardless of the efforts you are on zero slay count this year as me or dante



maybe it's time to adopt christian humility in dating/relationships department

also I'm not sure there is something like "spark shadowed" especially in that rate (two times in short period) @shookwun and @WhitePolarBear will elaborate whenever they will return from PUA bootcamp

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

This was a wonderful post.
Thank you for that.
You definitely like smart women and it is very likely that a smart woman will like you back. But you need patience because the right person might arrive after 8,10, 15 dates. On an average, 12 if I am not mistaken.

12? Oh.

The woman I had a meaningful relationship with years ago got a PhD in pharmacology and is now studying medicine. Another woman I spent time with later that year became an audiologist. And so on, definitely a pattern.

eventually regardless of the efforts you are on zero slay count this year as me or dante



maybe it's time to adopt christian humility in dating/relationships department

also I'm not sure there is something like "spark shadowed" especially in that rate (two times in short period) @shookwun and @WhitePolarBear will elaborate whenever they will return from PUA bootcamp

I believe women spontaneously lose interest all the time, what the cause is I don't know.

 

[pjhair]

So this keeps happening and I hate my f*****g life. If I were better looking or otherwise funnier it would go better. If I had better luck it might go better. The most likely assumption is that since I'm not very good looking, I need to be at 100%, and if I slip to 95%, or the woman meets somebody else, or we have a few days separation, POUF ! it's over.

It's hard to know why the sparks are dying so soon. Looks may be a factor but one of my friend who is tall, NW1, Caucasian and good looking has had similar experience as you on many of his online dates . Sometimes women would cancel the date and other times the spark will disappear after one or two dates. However, he has gotten laid with some of those women as well but with the exception of one, things never really went anywhere even after sex. He got into relationship with one women but broke up after six months as he wasn't that attracted to her.

I remember from my college days, when I was at my physical prime, the spark that I had with some women never really went away, even after years. However, they were real life interactions. The women saw me pretty frequently. Online dating may have completely different dynamics. My friend who lives in Vancouver told me that he went on lunch with some of his co-workers. The conversation turned to Tinder and an ugly, fat female colleague handed her phone to him and asked him to right swipe on all the guys. He was shocked to find that almost all guys were matching with the women. Online dating is pretty harsh for men.

 

[buckthorn]

I dated a lot when I was considered "attractive". Every woman I went out with wanted to continually date me, have a relationship and eventually talked about marriage and kids. Since I gained weight, aged (due to perpetual injury, drinking and sleeping pills), and, most importantly, lost my hair to the point I look like a sickly chemo patient... women don't even look at me any more. Dead serious. I had a lack of faith in women to begin with. Now, I just seriously think they are selfish and shallow as hell. Point is... drop it dude. You will never find happiness in women. very, very few have. You don't need women to be happy, you need yourself.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I dated a lot when I was considered "attractive". Every woman I went out with wanted to continually date me, have a relationship and eventually talked about marriage and kids. Since I gained weight, aged (due to perpetual injury, drinking and sleeping pills), and, most importantly, lost my hair to the point I look like a sickly chemo patient... women don't even look at me any more. Dead serious. I had a lack of faith in women to begin with. Now, I just seriously think they are selfish and shallow as hell. Point is... drop it dude. You will never find happiness in women. very, very few have. You don't need women to be happy, you need yourself.

Did you not write a few months ago that there were three different women into you, but you were too depressed to follow up?

 

[pjhair]

You will never find happiness in women. very, very few have. You don't need women to be happy, you need yourself.

This point needs to be elaborated a but more. Relying on others for your own happiness is a dangerous prospect. I was happily married once but then divorce happened and my life turned upside down and it took me a few years to recover. I am not sure if I have recovered 100%. If I meet a women again and settle down with her, what's the guarantee it wouldn't happen again? There is none. I think, every man and women should look within themselves for happiness. Are you happy on your own? If not, find means to happiness. My means to happiness is my family and friends, my physique, tv shows, books, traveling, movies, working out etc. They give me great pleasure.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

This point needs to be elaborated a but more. Relying on others for your own happiness is a dangerous prospect. I was happily married once but then divorce happened and my life turned upside down and it took me a few years to recover. I am not sure if I have recovered 100%. If I meet a women again and settle down with her, what's the guarantee it wouldn't happen again? There is none. I think, every man and women should look within themselves for happiness. Are you happy on your own? If not, find means to happiness. My means to happiness is my family and friends, my physique, tv shows, books, traveling, movies, working out etc. They give me great pleasure.

I disagree. I don't think that long term happiness via hobbies is possible. They're a palliative to pass the time and very effective on a temporary basis. Long term, human contact including sex is necessary.

There is no guarantee of finding someone good again, and the guarantee of finding happiness is even lower.

 

[buckthorn]

Did you not write a few months ago that there were three different women into you, but you were too depressed to follow up?

indeed, but one of them I dated briefly in 2016 and she was amazing, but below average in looks and the other two I was conversing with on facebook, and they had not seen me in years. My comment was geared more towards my interaction with women in every day life. I used to get "looks" by most women... even the giggling when two of them would pull up next to me in my car... Now, it's like I am almost despised or something. No second looks, nothing... ever. If anything, I get the quick look at and the look away. It's f*****g sad. But, then again relieving, because I am tired of depending on women for anything.

 

[pjhair]

I disagree. I don't think that long term happiness via hobbies is possible. They're a palliative to pass the time and very effective on a temporary basis. Long term, human contact including sex is necessary.

There is no guarantee of finding someone good again, and the guarantee of finding happiness is even lower.

I am pretty happy and content right now without women. Though I am not sure how would I feel in long term, I can only go by what I know right now. Not on my future mental state.

 

[buckthorn]

I disagree. I don't think that long term happiness via hobbies is possible. They're a palliative to pass the time and very effective on a temporary basis. Long term, human contact including sex is necessary.

There is no guarantee of finding someone good again, and the guarantee of finding happiness is even lower.

I actually disagree with this. I don't think sex is necessary. A lot of people live completely happy, meaningful lives without it. Long term human contact can be achieved with friends and as long as your hobbies involve seclusion in nature, they are more than enough to sustain. We are evolutionarily programmed to be occupied and content in nature.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

I actually disagree with this. I don't think sex is necessary. A lot of people live completely happy, meaningful lives without it. Long term human contact can be achieved with friends and as long as your hobbies involve seclusion in nature, they are more than enough to sustain. We are evolutionarily programmed to be occupied and content in nature.

We are evolutionarily programmed to be the most social animals on the planet. We need company even more than dogs and dolphins.

Why do you think we're the only primates (of dozens of species) to be with so little hair? It's argued that it's so that we can enjoy sex more. Similarly, a lot of differences between humans and other primates can be explained as due to sex.

Most people need companionship eventually and that's healthy and natural.

 

[buckthorn]

We are evolutionarily programmed to be the most social animals on the planet. We need company even more than dogs and dolphins.

Why do you think we're the only primates (of dozens of species) to be with so little hair? It's argued that it's so that we can enjoy sex more. Similarly, a lot of differences between humans and other primates can be explained as due to sex.

Most people need companionship eventually and that's healthy and natural.

true, I totally agree. I am just saying we have also evolved a much more complex mind.. one that's capable of achieving happiness even when we are lacking the things we really really want, like sex and female companionship. Plus.. the p**rn on the internet is becoming next level.

 

[karankaran]

It is very interesting (in a genuine way) for me to see you guys talk bout failures with women...

On the other hand, I have failed with men .I am gay. You may think it must be straight forward - it is not. Gay men value looks more than anything else.

But I am different - I will date a bald guy with great personality any day.

 

[Xander94]

It's over if you're sub7 you are never getting laid unless you are the most aligned person with women interests ever. Im so sorry.

 

[pjhair]

It's over if you're sub7 you are never getting laid unless you are the most aligned person with women interests ever. Im so sorry.

You are wrong my friend. You can get laid if you are sub 7 as long as you stay within your league.

 

[Dante92]

Your intelligence never ceases to amaze me, David. Really. Unfortunately, you and @CopeForLife are absolutely right. Being an intelligent and quite funny guy has never been of any use to me to attract girls, they never cared because of my looks, which is the only thing they really care about, as you know (not counting status and money).

If I were you I would invest your most valuable time, energies and intelligence over important things, not over some dumb sl*ts who won't care about you because of how you look. You've seen the results of your efforts yourself, it's just not worth it. And you're even 2 points more attractive than me, for f***'s sake.

I'm not saying you should give up on women entirely, though, only on this online dating thing. It's not working for you. You need to find an alternative, while keeping up your looksmaxing.

You are wrong my friend. You can get laid if you are sub 7 as long as you stay within your league.

Oh, he knows it already. Complaining is much funnier and easier, though, isn't it?

 

[pjhair]

It's mostly about looksmaxing, so keep on doing that.

And then you have to accept that modern dating is inherently chaotic.

With experience, you learn to identify real opportunities and the girls that are truly interested in you.

Before I met my current girlfriend, I really was on top of my game, in the sense that I knew how to optimize my dating life.

Of course that didn't mean that I stopped making mistakes, sometimes I still lost my temper with a girl online, sometimes I would get mad that a girl accepted to have a date with me while her attraction for me was non-existent, I would get even madder when they would tell me that they already felt nothing when they saw my pictures (but they thought I could seduce them as I was nice-looking and seemed to have my sh*t together), etc.

But those instances became rare. Also I knew exactly how to handle certain situations. Like the girls who would throw tantrums because I wasn't behaving how they were expecting me to behave. For example "I really liked you but you don't text me often enough! I can't go on like this!". I stood my ground, told her I really liked her, that it would be a shame to stop here, and that I was available if she changed her mind.

And of course, a week later or so (when she realized her other prospects weren't as good), she came back crawling "I want to see you again, I'm not crazy! ". Thanks to my looksmaxing (and I wasn't even gymcelling at the time), my extensive experience, my height probably, my social intuition and my realism (as @pjhair just said above, you have to stay within your league), my dating life became very pleasant.

What I see in @buckthorn 's post is just bitterness due to a failure to accept reality as it is. Yes, looks matter a lot. Yes, the competition is fierce (and that's why you need to optimize your looks), yes, incidentally women can be very demanding and unforgiving. Yes, things like hair (get on meds/get a hair transplant!) and height matter too. And yes, you need to remain realistic about your expectations, you need to know your true worth.

When I see myself a few years back: bald, slightly overweight (I see it now), mostly inexperienced, short-tempered, weak (mentally) and at the same time complaining about my dating life being hell, in the sense that women were treating me like crap, withdrawing sex very early in the relationship and in the end, either dumping me for a better-looking guy or constantly complaining about me not being good enough, "not making an effort", which in turn drove me to leave them.

Was that behavior normal and even expected? With everything I know now, absolutely. After I got better physically (hair transplant, some weight loss) and mentally (dating experience), all the above pretty much disappeared, and never came back, despite me dating like 15 girls in a year. All of a sudden they were all puppies that were walking on eggshells when interacting with me.

That's a long post... I hope you guys can take something away from it. In the end, there's no use complaining about women and ultimately, about real life and how it works.

You just have to put in the work (looksmaxing, getting experience, play the numbers game), discover what you plateau is and accept it no matter what your expectations were beforehand. And that's the hardest part for many people it seems.

I got to have 4 quality (cute, not fat, educated) girlfriends on my level (6-6.5/10) that were treating me very kindly and who all wanted a relationship with me. More than that was clearly unmanageable. That was my plateau and I accept it. You don't see me complaining that I can't get model-looking 9/10 girls to commit to me, let alone acknowledge my existence. It's off-limit for me and always will be.

@That Guy also mentioned this the other day: don't be the MGTOW type who bashes women all day long for wanting a man on her level and is surprised that they don't find his NW4, his gut and his semi-neet lifestyle attractive.

"Women who want the best they can have... and get it! Hypergamous b****s!"

Hang in there @David_MPN . Put in the work and get what you deserve .

Great post. You have a good head on your shoulders and have a high level of self awareness.

 

[Xander94]

Oh, he knows it already. Complaining is much funnier and easier, though, isn't it?

Sub7 is invisible 7++ is the new average. Everything else is just coping.