The most effective oil?

[Artas]

I'm gonna have to apologize for making so many threads. But which would be the best oil to apply to my scalp which could possibly inhibit DHT and help treat male pattern baldness?

They are so many I can think of, but have no idea which one would be effective. They are;

Emu Oil
Olive Oil
Pumpkin Seed Oil
Jojoba Oil...

 

[dazzerler]

as far as im aware none of them will help againts DHT. but in my opinion emu oil seems to hold the most promise for us balding people. It dose not clog porse and abosorbs quickly. I add a few drops to my min and it seems to make to soulution absorbe quicker in to the skin. as far as DHT blocking i have made my own topical which includes essintial oil green tea and a few other thing mixed with emu oil (very experimentle) but is base on odd nits and bobs i have read. At worst it make my scalp feel great and very relaxing i aplly it nightly and after half an hour its undetectable

 

[vauxall]

Sesame Oil (Re: The most effective oil?)

I think any oil that contains non-hydrogenated polyunsaturated fats, as they are the most fluid ones and will bind more effectively to sebum and wash it away. I am considering sesame oil after reading this on wikipedia:

Hair treatment
Applying sesame oil to the hair is said to result in darker hair. It may be used for hair and scalp massage. It is believed to reduce the heat of the body and thus helps in preventing hair loss

 

[Bryan]

I'm gonna have to apologize for making so many threads. But which would be the best oil to apply to my scalp which could possibly inhibit DHT and help treat male pattern baldness?

Emu Oil
Olive Oil
Pumpkin Seed Oil
Jojoba Oil...

Do you mean inhibit 5a-reductase? What makes you think any of those oils would do that?

 

[Artas]

Do you mean inhibit 5a-reductase? What makes you think any of those oils would do that?

I've read it many of times.

 

[decro435]

There are countless claims that suggest certain oils inhibit the 5a-reductase. None of these seem to be able to back-up these claims with studies. Though they can help with inflammation, soothing the scalp and keeping it moisturized.

Emu oil seems to be the cure for nearly everything. Although it is quite an effective oil in keeping hair moisturized, I doubt it has any effect on DHT. Though there is studies showing that Tea tree oil and Lavender oil have some anti-androgenic properties. I doubt it would make much of a difference. I like to use Olive oil/Emu oil/Jojoba oil topical to counter-act the drying effects of Ketoconazole.

 

[Artas]

I sometimes wish people would lie to me to put my mind at rest =P

Well if they contribute to a healthy scalp and healthy hair then I'll use a couple of them, and thanks for the info about Tea Tree Oil and Lavender Oil =]

 

[Bryan]

I've read it many of times.

I doubt that you ever read anything about it in scientific sources. You may have seen somebody speculate about it on hairloss sites like this one, but that doesn't mean much.

It's extremely doubtful that those specific oils you mentioned would be able to inhibit 5a-reductase to any significant extent.

 

[Bryan]

There are countless claims that suggest certain oils inhibit the 5a-reductase. None of these seem to be able to back-up these claims with studies.

Ever since Revivogen came out several years ago, a lot of people have thought about using various natural oils as a cheaper substitute. I used to have to spend a lot of time explaining to people that only certain FREE fatty acids inhibit 5a-reductase, and free fatty acids are present in only trace amounts in most natural oils. There may be some rare exceptions to that general rule, but you're not likely to have access to those plants, or their oils.

 

[Risugo]

There are countless claims that suggest certain oils inhibit the 5a-reductase. None of these seem to be able to back-up these claims with studies.

Ever since Revivogen came out several years ago, a lot of people have thought about using various natural oils as a cheaper substitute. I used to have to spend a lot of time explaining to people that only certain FREE fatty acids inhibit 5a-reductase, and free fatty acids are present in only trace amounts in most natural oils. There may be some rare exceptions to that general rule, but you're not likely to have access to those plants, or their oils.

Bryan, I am the R&D and Production Manager of a Edible Oil Refinery for 13 years now. I have access to several types of vegetable oils and fatty-acids. What type of free fatty acids can inhibit 5a-reductase.

 

[patagonia]

Old Baldy- (a knowledgeable veteran) brought bayberry to my attention a while ago... its a herbal extract in this case.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=43110&p=407815&hilit=+bayberry#p407815

Old Baldy posted:

Bryan: The bayberry extract study was conducted in vivo on hamster flank organs and black mice. (That's the only study I know of in vivo.)

It acts like a 5AR inhibitor and mild anti-androgen. Plus it does more. I'll get some links on this "does more".

Dr. Matusda stated in answer to Waseda that either Eastern bayberry root bark powder or Western bayberry root bark powder would suffice.

I called a professional herbal extraction company years ago and the owner knew of bayberry root bark extracts. He directly stated Eastern and Western bayberry root bark powders have the same basic active compounds. (He, in essence, agreed with Dr. Matsuda on using either type of bayberry root bark powder. My results indicate they both are correct. I've used both Eastern and Western for many months each separately and noticed absolutely no difference. Both helped the same for me.)

Kalyx.com is where I buy bayberry root bark powder. However, there are many places to buy this powder or as a cut and sifted root bark product. It is a very common herb in America. It's used for alot of "things".

All you do is mix 125 grams into 500ml of 100 proof vodka for the basic solution. (I make mine at 25 percent strength instead of the 20 percent rate in the study for a possible extra "punch"?)

(Let the stuff extract for 24 hours, as in the study, or much longer like if you want, which is what I do. You can generally let herbs soak in 100 proof vodka for 6 months to get stronger solutions. Anywhere in between is fine according to the pros.)

If you get the cut and sifted, it is a little more intact and will not have broken down as much as the powder. However, you will have to let the cut and sifted soak longer than the powder to get most of the stuff extracted according the herbal professional I talked with.

The pro recommended a two week soak for the cut and sifted type of root bark. But he did say the cut and sifted product would probably be better because it is "fresher" than root bark powders. Not much he said but "a little fresher". So buy either one for our purposes IMHO.

Give it a try, cheap and easy to make. Dr. Matsuda used 1ml dosages but that was on rodents.

If you want to dissolve other stuff into the final extraction, I don't see a problem but I only add salicylic acid and/or nicotinic acid to lower the PH which is a good thing with bayberry extracts according to various studies. (I add one tablespoon of salicylic acid or nicotinic acid to each 500ml concoction as it is soaking.)

Here's a link to the study:

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/24/3/259/_pdf

Let me repeat, this stuff is a very common herb in America and has been used for a LONG time for other "ailments". Just shop around IMHO.

Here's another interesting abstract from a study on bayberry:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1241 ... d_RVDocSum

And another:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1576 ... d_RVDocSum
_________________
Rick

Last edited by Old Baldy on Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:22 am, edited 6 times in total.

[urlhttp://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bpb/24/3/259/_pdf][/url]

 

[Bryan]

Bryan, I am the R&D and Production Manager of a Edible Oil Refinery for 13 years now. I have access to several types of vegetable oils and fatty-acids. What type of free fatty acids can inhibit 5a-reductase.

Well, being unsaturated seems to be a general requirement for the ability of a fatty acid to inhibit 5a-reductase, which means that the saturated azelaic acid must be an unusual exception to that rule.

I think the C-18 fatty acids have been studied the most in that regard, and the more unsaturated they are, the better they work. So the order of effectiveness goes like this: gamma-linolenic acid better than alpha-linolenic acid better than linoleic acid better than oleic acid better than stearic acid. I don't think the saturated stearic acid works at all to inhibit 5a-reductase.

 

[vauxall]

In my opinion it's not the DHT itself the problem but the dht-induced overproduction of sebum that occludes the follicle. This is one of the reasons why Nirozal works:

Acta Derm Venereol. 1997 Mar;77(2):132-4
Effect of ketoconazole 2% shampoo on scalp sebum level in patients with seborrhoeic dermatitis.Dobrev H, Zissova L.
Department of Dermatology, Medical University, Plovdiv, Bulgaria.

Twenty patients with scalp seborrhoeic dermatitis were treated twice weekly with ketoconazole 2% shampoo for 4 weeks. Clinical assessment, culture for P. ovale on Dixon broth and lipid measurement at two places were made before treatment and after 2 and 4 weeks. Significant improvement of the severity of seborrhoeic dermatitis (p < 0.001) and negative mycological tests by 19 (95%) of patients were observed. The scalp lipid content remained unaltered in 11 patients with an initial lipid value over 220 micrograms/cm2 but increased in those with lower initial values. This is probably due to the improvement of sebum delivery onto skin surface as a result of the elimination of the follicular occlusion.

PMID: 9111824 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Bryan]

In my opinion it's not the DHT itself the problem but the dht-induced overproduction of sebum that occludes the follicle.

Then why do androgens suppress the growth of scalp hair follicles even in vitro?

 

[Guest]

I use various oils, have been for around 3 months now. Applied every other day for at least 3 hours. Nothing to report so far but hair no longer gets greasy after just 1 day like it did prior to using the oils.

 

[vauxall]

In my opinion it's not the DHT itself the problem but the dht-induced overproduction of sebum that occludes the follicle.

Then why do androgens suppress the growth of scalp hair follicles even in vitro?

I don't know! Maybe you can post some medical studies to prove your point. I always do.

Then, have you read the study? How do you justify that? Ketokonazole doesn't interfere with hormones but it works.

 

[Bryan]

Then why do androgens suppress the growth of scalp hair follicles even in vitro?

I don't know! Maybe you can post some medical studies to prove your point. I always do.

You've never heard of any studies done where androgens were given in vitro to cultured human hair follicles? :shock: Below is one example of such a study. There are others.

J Invest Dermatol. 1993 Jul;101(1 Suppl):98S-105S.

"Sex hormones and antiandrogens influence in vitro growth of dermal papilla cells and outer root sheath keratinocytes of human hair follicles" Kiesewetter F, Arai A, Schell H.
Department of Dermatology, University of Erlangen-Nürnberg, Germany.

Anagen hair bulb papillae, interfollicular dermal fibroblasts, and interfollicular keratinocytes isolated from fronto-parietal scalp biopsies as well as outer root sheath keratinocytes from plucked anagen hairs were separately grown in subculture for 14 d. The effect of different concentrations (2.4 nM-17.3 microM) of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, and the antiandrogens cyproterone acetate or 17 alpha-propylmesterolone on growth behavior of the mesenchymal and epithelial cell types of the hair follicle were comparatively studied by means of growth curves, cell doubling times, and 3H-thymidine incorporation. For control, all cell lines were subcultured in hormone-free medium. Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone (345 nM) significantly reduced proliferation of papilla cells compared with dermal fibroblasts (p < 0.01) and outer root sheath keratinocytes compared with interfollicular keratinocytes (p < 0.01), as well as compared with cells cultured in control medium. Low concentrations of 17 beta-estradiol were ineffective, whereas doses of 180 nM 17 beta-estradiol increased the growth velocities of all cell types, especially of papilla cells, compared with dermal fibroblasts. Low doses of either cyproterone acetate (24 nM) or 17 alpha-propylmesterolone (29 nM) induced a growth enhancement, especially of papilla cells and outer root sheath keratinocytes, whereas high doses of cyproterone (1.20 microM) and 17 alpha-propylmesterolone (1.45 microM) had opposite effects. These changes were significant between papilla cells and dermal fibroblasts as well as between outer root sheath keratinocytes and interfollicular keratinocytes. Applying increasing doses of androgens to cyproterone acetate (24 nM)- or 17 alpha-propylmesterolone (29 nM)-containing media neutralized the growth-stimulating effect of antiandrogens, particularly in papilla cells and outer root sheath keratinocytes. However, minor differences between testosterone and dihydrotestosterone effects on cell growth were found. The data clearly demonstrate that the changes of in vitro growth of hair follicle cells depend on the concentrations of androgens and antiandrogens, as higher doses of both antiandrogens tested retarded the cell proliferation similar to testosterone or dihydrotestosterone. The papilla cells and outer root sheath keratinocytes reacted more sensitively to the hormones tested, thereby confirming the concept of a distinct androgen sensitivity of these specialized hair follicle cells.

Then, have you read the study? How do you justify that?

Huh? How do I justify WHAT? The study you posted showing Nizoral's ability to fight seborrheic dermatitis? That's easy to explain: ketoconazole, the active ingredient in Nizoral, kills the fungus associated with seb derm.

Ketokonazole doesn't interfere with hormones but it works.

Actually, it _does_ interfere with hormones, in a certain important sense: ketoconazole has been shown to block androgen receptors, which may account for some or all of its ability to help male pattern baldness, as was shown in that famous French study with Nizoral.

 

[vauxall]

The study you posted was in vitro, what about in vivo?

I am not saying that blocking androgen receptors has nothing to do with it, but it could be an indirect effect of sebum reduction and follicle regeneration. Yes, Finasteride works but why don't other natural DHT blockers (Saw Palmetto, which I have been taking on and off for two years) give visible results? I want to think that in the future one can cure alopecia without screwing somebody's sex life.

 

[Bryan]

The study you posted was in vitro, what about in vivo?

I think it's safe to say that androgens are harmful to scalp hair growth in living, breathing men! "Male hormone stimulation is a prequisite and incitant in common baldness", Hamilton JB. Am J Anat 1942; 71: 451-480.

I am not saying that blocking androgen receptors has nothing to do with it, but it could be an indirect effect of sebum reduction and follicle regeneration.

Then how do you explain the fact that finasteride is well-demonstrated to fight male pattern baldness, even though it has no effect on sebum production? "The androgen control of sebum production. Studies of subjects with dihydrotestosterone deficiency and complete androgen insensitivity." J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1993 Feb;76(2):524-8. From the abstract of this study: "Males with benign prostatic hyperplasia treated with the 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor, finasteride, to lower DHT levels did not decrease the sebum score from baseline values."

Yes, Finasteride works but why don't other natural DHT blockers (Saw Palmetto, which I have been taking on and off for two years) give visible results?

Maybe saw palmetto doesn't really "block" DHT nearly as well as you think it does.

I want to think that in the future one can cure alopecia without screwing somebody's sex life.

Better stick to topicals that have a local effect only.