The only minoxidil issue that concerns me- Answers appreciated

[iseras]

I'm a diffuse thinner, using minoxidil all over the head- i just have one concern about this, and any help would be appreciated.

If you apply minoxidil all over the head, wouldn't it convert all the dormant hair to anagen? Does that mean that since all the hairs after minoxidil use are in growth phase, that once you quit it, they'll all go to dormancy, meaning that you'll loose all your hair upon quitting? Or are some hairs not affected by minoxidil? It just seems to me that since minoxidil syncs all those hairs for growth, that when you quit, you'll loose all of it cause they'll all go to rest at the same time- or does minoxidil only work on certain hairs, not affecting others. I guess i'm just concerned that if i ever decide to quit for any reason, i wouldn't lose all my hair, including the ones that i had before i started minoxidil anyway. Answers highly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Bismarck]

That's the neverending question CAN minoxidil WORSEN HAIRLOSS ?
I'm not a scientist but I would say that minoxidil-hairs are artificially kept alive. You ask whether hairs not yet affected by male pattern baldness can also become minoxidil-hairs and will be lost after stopping minoxidil. Some say that this is true. I don't know so I also use it at the hairline. If I were a diffuse thinner I wouldn't apply minoxidil.
Read Gardener's thread "This should start some debate" where this question was discussed by Bryan.

BIS

 

[iseras]

I read that thread, but didn't really see this question specifically addressed. I wish Upjohn would just clear this. Anyone else have a take on this? Bryan??

 

[Hpower]

i think it would due damage to hair that is not bad because if you read the slip that comes with rogaine they say-do not use on spots that are not thinging or if hair loss is not in your family. after i read this i use a q-tip to apply so that i dont hit hairs that are good because if i use the droper i feel the oil running down my head hitting good hairs and that concerned me

 

[Bryan]

This issue keeps coming up from time to time, so I'll keep posting this scan every now and then...study it carefully:

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/quitting-minoxidil.htm

Those are two graphs from a fairly recent topical minoxidil study. One shows hairCOUNTS, the other shows hairWEIGHTS. The subjects used the minoxidil for 96 weeks, then stopped it at that point, but the graphs continue for an additional 6 months after that point! Notice that 3 months after stopping treatment, the counts and weights had actually dropped BELOW the placebo users, but after another 3 months, they were well on the way to rebounding back to the full level of the placebo users.

The take-home message seems to be that yes, you DO take a severe hit immediately after stopping topical minoxidil; but after a few more months, you eventually get back to where you would have been, had you never used it in the first place.

Bryan

 

[Bismarck]

Great contribution, thank you Brian!
Another point that is interesting is the minoxidil related long term perspective. I've heard that the follicle can only have a limited number of hair cycles (20 or so). If that is true and minoxidil speeds up that cycle then the follicle would be "exhausted" sooner so and one is doomed to be bald after let's say 20 years of minoxidil use !?!

BISMARCK

PS: Brian, do you have a paper about facial hairs ?

 

[George Costanza]

I've heard that the follicle can only have a limited number of hair cycles (20 or so). If that is true and minoxidil speeds up that cycle then the follicle would be "exhausted" sooner so and one is doomed to be bald after let's say 20 years of minoxidil use !?!

Scary :freaked:

 

[RalphyWiggum]

Great contribution, thank you Brian!
Another point that is interesting is the minoxidil related long term perspective. I've heard that the follicle can only have a limited number of hair cycles (20 or so). If that is true and minoxidil speeds up that cycle then the follicle would be "exhausted" sooner so and one is doomed to be bald after let's say 20 years of minoxidil use !?!

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever had the pleasure of reading. I am sure there are a lot of pornstars who wax their cha-cha and starfish that wish such a theory were true.

 

[iseras]

Thanks for that study, Bryan- Is that really true, that there is only a certain limit to an indivudual hair's growth cycle?

Another follow up question for you Bryan- Do you recommend a diffuse thinner use minoxidil all over? Also, if i do decide to quit, do you think that slowly tapering off minoxidil, rather than quitting cold turkey, would reduce the severity of the shed and not make it as noticable? Thanks

 

[bombscience]

This issue keeps coming up from time to time, so I'll keep posting this scan every now and then...study it carefully:

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/quitting-minoxidil.htm

Those are two graphs from a fairly recent topical minoxidil study. One shows hairCOUNTS, the other shows hairWEIGHTS. The subjects used the minoxidil for 96 weeks, then stopped it at that point, but the graphs continue for an additional 6 months after that point! Notice that 3 months after stopping treatment, the counts and weights had actually dropped BELOW the placebo users, but after another 3 months, they were well on the way to rebounding back to the full level of the placebo users.

The take-home message seems to be that yes, you DO take a severe hit immediately after stopping topical minoxidil; but after a few more months, you eventually get back to where you would have been, had you never used it in the first place.

Bryan

I will agree with this from personal experience. I have been off minoxidil for 2 months now after using it for 10 months. In that time period minoxidil did not regrow ANY hair on my head. At most the only thing it did was slow down my loss (if that).

2 months later I am going through a HUGE shed of healthy and unhealthy hairs. Not sure what to make of it right now. Very dissappointing to say the least.

 

[Becks]

Bombsience why did you stop minoxidil ? I also see you are using Dr.Lees PPG free.so it's not because of the irritation !

Did you think minoxidil made your hair worse ?

 

[Bryan]

Thanks for that study, Bryan- Is that really true, that there is only a certain limit to an indivudual hair's growth cycle?

I think that idea came from people reading about telomere shortening in cells (which puts a theoretical maximum limit on the number of times they can divide), and then wondering to themselves: "Gee...maybe a similar thing happens in hair follicles." But there is no evidence for that, as far as I know. Personally, I think the idea is pure rubbish.

Another follow up question for you Bryan- Do you recommend a diffuse thinner use minoxidil all over?

Well, yes, in general. However, there is evidence that the effect of topical minoxidil extends to some extent even to hair follicles that don't get the direct application, so I wouldn't get too obsessive about trying to hit every last one of them on every application.

Also, if i do decide to quit, do you think that slowly tapering off minoxidil, rather than quitting cold turkey, would reduce the severity of the shed and not make it as noticable? Thanks

Yes. I think it only makes good sense to taper off gradually, if possible.

Bryan

 

[bombscience]

Bombsience why did you stop minoxidil ? I also see you are using Dr.Lees PPG free.so it's not because of the irritation !

Did you think minoxidil made your hair worse ?

I quit minoxidil exactly because of the irritation. 2x a day of that stuff was too much for me to handle. My hair continued to thin after 10 months on minoxidil 5% 2X a day. I was also on minoxidil 2-3 months before i started propecia, without seeing any regrowth then. I dont count those months because I was using Rogaine, which really irritated my scalp.

so about 1 year on minoxidil with no results, plus the constant added itching? would you quit?

 

[Becks]

I stopped and now I'm crying like a pussy ! As a diffuse thinner it riuned my whole top + gave me a widow pick in front. Unfortunately I had to start again, because I want MY HAIR BACK ! This time I#m on Dr.Lee's minoxidil.

I stoppedfor the same reasons as you...the irratation was too much too handle

 

[Wezz]

if you have bad irritation just go for 1x a day ...

 

[Pazzna]

Bryan[/quote]

I will agree with this from personal experience. I have been off minoxidil for 2 months now after using it for 10 months. In that time period minoxidil did not regrow ANY hair on my head. At most the only thing it did was slow down my loss (if that).

.[/quote]

That's my experience also. <Sheesh!>

P.

 

[misterium]

sh*t! I'm so confused!

I don't know what to use for topicals! I tried minoxidil and was irritated by the PPG. I don't have any visible bald spots, just thinning on crown/vertex... not sure if I should wait for Propecia to work FIRST, and THEN get onto a topical, or if I should go PPG-Free Xandrox or WHAT ? ! Confusion.

I'm using Propecia currently, about 2 months into it... not shedding too bad nothing abnormal I think.

 

[too bald too furious]

I did some research on this topic, and as to what i understand, suppose you use minoxidil for 2 years without seeing any regrowth, and then you quit, you will lose the hair which minoxidil was keeping alive. So if you had never used minoxidil, after the 2 years you still would had lost those hair. Remember..minoxidil is only a treatment, not a cure.
And also, minoxidil has a non-localized effect. So even if you apply on your hairline or crown or any other bald patch..some minoxidil is still under your entire scalp.
I have been using minoxidil for around 2 months now on temple/frontal and a bit on the crown. But my hair is shittier than what it was before i started. May be i am still in the shedding phase, as i can see a lot of hairs in my shower and towel.
But its recommended to use for 4-6 months. I will decide then only...if i should continue minoxidil or not.

 

[Dave001]

This issue keeps coming up from time to time, so I'll keep posting this scan every now and then...study it carefully:

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/quitting-minoxidil.htm

Those are two graphs from a fairly recent topical minoxidil study. One shows hairCOUNTS, the other shows hairWEIGHTS. The subjects used the minoxidil for 96 weeks, then stopped it at that point, but the graphs continue for an additional 6 months after that point! Notice that 3 months after stopping treatment, the counts and weights had actually dropped BELOW the placebo users, but after another 3 months, they were well on the way to rebounding back to the full level of the placebo users.

The take-home message seems to be that yes, you DO take a severe hit immediately after stopping topical minoxidil; but after a few more months, you eventually get back to where you would have been, had you never used it in the first place.

That's exactly what I would expect to happen in the worst case scenario.

 

[bombscience]

If you're not looking to regrow hair immediately a good first step for someone who dosen't have a "bald spot" and is in the beginning stages of thinning would be a topical + propecia. more specifically spironolactone + finasteride.