Thing I'm realizing about abortion being fully legal:

[CCS]

I used to get all upset about the thought of a 7 month conscious fetus being killed. But...

Late term abortion is VERY rare. An extimate 0.08% occur after 24 weeks, because of severe birth defects typically. 1% occur after 20 weeks.

Point is, even though it is legal for women to kill a viable 7 month old fetus, it just almost never happens.

1000 per year are aborted after 24 weeks, mostly because of birth defects, and who knows how late after 24 weeks. That is how many kids die of drowning each year. There are 17,000 murders in the US each year.

I think people should not get so upset about the fact that there is no law agaist an attrocity that rarely happens. How much money would be spent auditing all the procedures to make sure it does not happen? One way would be to send pregnant women in pretending to want a procedure at 7 months, with a healthy baby, and see if the doctor agrees to perform it.

I think giving public loans for first trimester abortions would be good though.

My question for you all is, how much should society mandate that parents put out for their kids? Assuming state aid is hard to get for severely disabled kids? It is one thing to kill a kid who the parents could put up for addoption. But if a parent knows they will have to slave away to raise the kid, and addoption is very unlikely, is it wrong for the parents to kill the severely disabled kid at 6 months in the womb?

Say it costs $30,000 a year each to care for severely disabled people in group homes. 1000 per year. In 60 years, that is 60,000, x $50,000 is $180,000,000 per year for all the United States. We are ethically required to do no harm, but are we ethically required to do good like that?

 

[patagonia]

Say it costs $30,000 a year each to care for severely disabled people in group homes. 1000 per year. In 60 years, that is 60,000, x $50,000 is $180,000,000 per year for all the United States. We are ethically required to do no harm, but are we ethically required to do good like that?

Yes. Assuming these numbers are close to the reality, it`s still pocket change when compared to the resources spent/wasted a year on many more things.

We are talking about one of the most vulnerable groups here. Extremely vulnerable human beings that often end up being used as pretty much slaves to beg for money in the streets or much worse, like you see in many other countries.
Think of the moral cost for a society....

 

[The Gardener]

On a planet that is increasingly being faced with overpopulation, unbounded encroachment of human habitat into undeveloped land, crop shortages, fresh water shortages, peak oil, depletion of fisheries, etc., I find it crazy that we are forcing people who don't want or aren't ready to have children to have them? I heard somewhere that in the next few decades we're going to add a billion to earth's human population. Do we really have the energy and food sources these folks are going to need in order to live? On the whole, how sustainable is this??

 

[HughJass]

India are paying their citizens not to have children



I'm moving to India and not having children.

 

[CCS]

I'm glad to hear india is doing that. I hope China and many other countries start too. We should do that here.

As for abortion, I believe we should finance it especially in the first trimester, but not in the third.

If we do have a law against abortion, it should work as follows:
Send a healthy 8 month pregnant woman with a healthy fetus in to see an abortion doctor. She should be of a race and appearance such that the kid could easily get addopted. Have her say she just got divorced and does not want to deliver the kid, or some story like that. If the doctor agrees to the abortion, she pulls out her batch and writes him a ticket for a $20,000 fine. He can appeal to a medical board before having to plea innocent or guilty in court, and shall be provided the same legal protections that a felony would have, yet it will not go on his record as a felony, but be treated as a business fine instead.

Do you think that would be a good law? Would the supreme court over turn it?

A lot of pro-lifers want to stop the deaths of viable fetuses in the late term. Pro-choicers have excuses of circumstances, circumstance, circumstances. That is why we need to legalize everything, except that one very specific test.

 

[CCS]

I know the supreme court overturned every partial birth abortion law from the fed. What about state laws? Have those been overturned?


There Illinois, and Congress both passed laws stating that if a doctor aborts a third trimester fetus, the doctor must care for the fetus as if he/she were delivering it for birth. This way the mother gets rid of the fetus, and the fetus lives.

Sounds nice at first. But the womb provides hormones to the fetus that tell it's cells to specialize and develop into mature speciallized cells, from embro to baby. If you take a fetus out of the womb, development stops. That is why many pre-maturely born babies have mental disorders. This law just produced thousands of new special needs kids.

 

[CCS]

I wonder how the number of falsely convicted doctors would compare to the number of babies saved if 3rd trimester abortions were illegal.

60,000 disabled people x $20,000 per year per person = $1,200,000,000. 0.03% of the national budget.
Only a 0.02% increase in population.
Raising the disabled people is not terribly hard. Once brain waves start, it is just a question of do we kill off people who are deadweight? Do we have a right to decide who is having enough fun to be allowed to live?

 

[CCS]

Here is a thought:

Animals are conscious too. We evolved along with them. Sure we have technology, but it was made by very intelligent people, not the users of the technology.

Is it OK then to kill an animal for its meat, and feed that meat to a severely retarded human who is given tax payer funded care?

A lot of pro-life people want to get rid of social security, and other hand outs, and require people to save for their own retirement. The difference they see is that the retarded child did not have the ability to work and save. The senior citizen did.

 

[HughJass]

Is it OK then to kill an animal for its meat, and feed that meat to a severely retarded human who is given tax payer funded care?

what.


the.


f*ck.

 

[CCS]

Is it OK then to kill an animal for its meat, and feed that meat to a severely retarded human who is given tax payer funded care?

what.


the.


f*ck.

Hey, some people would argue it is NOT ok to kill animals at all. On the basis that they are conscious.

 

[turkey]

Whats the difference between abortion and murder? I don't see a difference tell me your points of view and when it would be "okay" to have an abortion?I see it as killing an innocent unborn baby is wrong and that if a mother can't provide for the child it is best to give the child a chance at life and send them to a place where that baby can find people that are willing to raise them if the biological parents can't.
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[oni]

Whats the difference between abortion and murder? I don't see a difference tell me your points of view and when it would be "okay" to have an abortion?I see it as killing an innocent unborn baby is wrong and that if a mother can't provide for the child it is best to give the child a chance at life and send them to a place where that baby can find people that are willing to raise them if the biological parents can't.

Vacuum the little parasite out and flush it down the drain but make sure you keep the Placenta!!! yummmy!

http://www.mothers35plus.co.uk/placenta-recipes.htm

 

[s.a.f]

Whats the difference between abortion and murder? I don't see a difference tell me your points of view and when it would be "okay" to have an abortion?I see it as killing an innocent unborn baby is wrong and that if a mother can't provide for the child it is best to give the child a chance at life and send them to a place where that baby can find people that are willing to raise them if the biological parents can't.