To Bryan: Finasteride - neurological side effects too?

[nizoralad]

Hi Bryan,

Does this also mean that finasteride in it's type 2 inhibition can have neurological side effects as dutasteride might in it's type 1 inhibition?

Thanks.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... ds=9918575

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... s=10945840

 

[Rage]

If you looked at the dose of finasteride they gave to the rats, it would be the equivalent of you eating around 10,000 propecia pills ... and that would be insane! :shock:

 

[nizoralad]

gotcha, thanks.

 

[Stingray]

QUIT WORRYING

 

[hair mchair]

QUIT WORRYING

Rationally discussing potential consequences of taking a drug is not the same as "worrying," you douche bag. Now why don't you go back to killing your penis with Avodart and stop butting in to pollute other people's threads with your ignorance, 'kay? Buh-bye.

 

[Hairybush1]

Holy sh*t hair McChair, whats gotten into you?! lol

anyway, whats up with your situation? Has it improved?

 

[sonicthehedgehog]

QUIT WORRYING

Rationally discussing potential consequences of taking a drug is not the same as "worrying," you douche bag. Now why don't you go back to killing your penis with Avodart and stop butting in to pollute other people's threads with your ignorance, 'kay? Buh-bye.

Right. Quit worrying, wait until you've developed irreversible fits until you do something.

Slight exageration.

A common angle of argument is finasteride dosage. 'Just think about the guys taking finasteride for prostate disorders, they take 5 times what we take!'

But it's not that dose dependant of a drug! Taking 5 times what we take there's literally no change in the amount of DHT inhibited. Like the trials of people taking .25mg and having very close to the same results. And tests of a guy taking 100mg a day for two months with zero sides. It's hardly dose dependant.

I think for the sake of a better argument they should have given the rats less though.

 

[Bryan]

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in mouse studies on the neurological effects of finasteride, since those critters may well have a different distribution (and even structure) of the 5a-reductase enzymes, compared to what humans have.

Bryan

 

[Rage]

It probably plays a different role too.. for example, rats taking finasteride have major sex problems, as DHT plays a very important role for an organ which we humans don't have.. something like that anway.

 

[hair mchair]

It probably plays a different role too.. for example, rats taking finasteride have major sex problems, as DHT plays a very important role for an organ which we humans don't have.. something like that anway.

Unless you can cite a source for that, I'm going to have to say you're wrong.

However, there was a study done which showed that rats on high dosages of finasteride experienced penile atrophy as a result of lower DHT levels. Castrated rats also experienced atrophy, but their atrophy was worse than the finasteride group because they had even lower levels of DHT, as well as low levels of testosterone. The conclusion was that both testosterone and DHT are necessary for keeping the penile tissue healthy, at least in rats. But since human beings also experience atrophy with low testosterone levels, it seems likely they would also experience atrophy with low DHT levels.

Maybe this is what you were thinking of?

 

[drinkrum]

It probably plays a different role too.. for example, rats taking finasteride have major sex problems, as DHT plays a very important role for an organ which we humans don't have.. something like that anway.

Unless you can cite a source for that, I'm going to have to say you're wrong.

However, there was a study done which showed that rats on high dosages of finasteride experienced penile atrophy as a result of lower DHT levels. Castrated rats also experienced atrophy, but their atrophy was worse than the finasteride group because they had even lower levels of DHT, as well as low levels of testosterone. The conclusion was that both testosterone and DHT are necessary for keeping the penile tissue healthy, at least in rats. But since human beings also experience atrophy with low testosterone levels, it seems likely they would also experience atrophy with low DHT levels.

Maybe this is what you were thinking of?

The study was indeed a valid study, Hair, but it was conducted on mice that were not full-grown -- something similar to pre-pubescent or pubescent boys if you want to take the human counterpart. So, the study on penile atrophy does not really apply to the grand majority of finasteride users.

Bryan, I believe you mentioned this too in response to people causing all sorts of clamor over this study. Can you reiterate what you said and try to put an end to this topic?

D.

 

[hair mchair]

Thanks drinkrum. I forgot to mention they weren't fully grown.

I wouldn't mind hearing Bryan's opinion on that particular study.

 

[Rage]

It probably plays a different role too.. for example, rats taking finasteride have major sex problems, as DHT plays a very important role for an organ which we humans don't have.. something like that anway.

Unless you can cite a source for that, I'm going to have to say you're wrong.

...

Maybe this is what you were thinking of?

Yes, that is exactly, although with a differing conclusion. And yes I do have a source now that I'm awake and not partially unconscious!

Decreased fertility in Rats is due to to defects in Copulatory Plug formation

Humans don't have a copulatory plug, which is what I was suppose to say originally. So these adverse effects are not applicable to us! Copulatoy plugs are secretions that plug up female reproductive tracts to prevents any one else's pesky sperm fertilizing the egg.


And here's a link to a 10 Year Proscar safety study for those who are still worried.. came across it, thought might reassure some people.

As with all articles I steal from ScienceDirect using my uni account, you can view the abstract but not the whole article unless you pay!

 

[hair mchair]

Thanks for posting your source Rage. Looks like you were right after all. Now that I think about it, I have a vague recollection of someone talking about copulatory plugs before. Very interesting.

 

[sonicthehedgehog]

That report sounds logical. It could have come from a different author though. :/

 

[Bob_Marley]

Yeah I'm f*cking losing my mind right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Baldness and life are scary. And death is even scarier.---is that a word

 

[hair mchair]

Death? Who said anything about death?

And yes, Bob, scarier is a word.

 

[sonicthehedgehog]

I thought it was 'scarederer'