Topical estrogen

[ugh]

I'm buying more into the idea that estrogen has a major role in male pattern baldness espeically along the hairline. Would it be possible to grind up an estrogen pill (progynova) put the pills in ethynol and apply topically like homemade spironolactone? I understand the possible risks invovled here - its more of a question for the science guys on here.
Or perhaps use topical estriol? Has anyone tried this? I've seen posters talk about wanting to try it but there is never any follow up?

 

[Bryan]

I don't doubt that estrogen plays _some_ role in balding (a protective role, not a causative role, as some people mistakenly think! ), but I don't think it's a "major" one. Neither do I believe in the use of topical estrogen; Kligman showed in a study several years ago that there's a very significant risk of systemic absorption from using topical estrogen.

 

[ugh]

So, protective role - as it won't help regrow hair but perhaps protect hairs from falling out? Wouldn't estriol/estradiol provide an optimal environment for regrowth to occur assuming a 5AR inhibitor was being used?

 

[Bryan]

No no no, I'm saying that some people have the goofy idea that estrogen actually causes male pattern baldness!! :shock: I've argued incessantly about that for YEARS with such people on various sites like this. The ones with whom I've recently gotten into it here on HairLossTalk.com over that issue have included Hoppi and misterE.

 

[GeminiX]

I recently did a completely unscientific poll on some transsexual forums and asked the members how many of them had recovered hair (where they had typical male pattern baldness) after commencing taking feminising drugs, particularly oestrogens and anti-androgens.

I didn't get around to putting the results into a spreadsheet, so treat this "as is", but hair-recovery once treatment begins is very common; in fact it is now listed in many placed as one of the things which will happen when you begin a typical male-to-female transsexual regimen.

In a nutshell, people experience good regrowth where hair has been lost in the last decade, not so much beyond that.
Also, I was unable to find a single example where someone had lost hair once treatment started.

So there it is, completely unscientific, but oestrogen combined with testosterone blockers seem to have very positive effects on hair loss, though obviously they have powerful feminising effects too.

 

[Ende]

Risk of side effects aside, DHT has greater affinity for the receptors.

 

[KP211]

i dont think estrogen plays a protective role in male pattern baldness, because when you block dht more of the testosterone converts to estrogen therefore you think you would have better growth, I think that excessive estrogen causes low libido while on propecia because of high estrogen levels also the reason why some guys experience gyno.

 

[Thkmra]

Hmmm..intresting indeed. I myslef use a phytoestogen cream as a topical every couple of days or so. Wondering if I can make my own...

 

[baldingindian]

apparantely a hot discussion is going on hairlosshelp forum regarding oestriol cream , a estrogen cream variant,
http://hairlosshelp.com/FORUMS/messagev ... erthread=y

 

[purecontrol]

I recently did a completely unscientific poll on some transsexual forums and asked the members how many of them had recovered hair (where they had typical male pattern baldness) after commencing taking feminising drugs, particularly oestrogens and anti-androgens.

I didn't get around to putting the results into a spreadsheet, so treat this "as is", but hair-recovery once treatment begins is very common; in fact it is now listed in many placed as one of the things which will happen when you begin a typical male-to-female transsexual regimen.

In a nutshell, people experience good regrowth where hair has been lost in the last decade, not so much beyond that.
Also, I was unable to find a single example where someone had lost hair once treatment started.

So there it is, completely unscientific, but oestrogen combined with testosterone blockers seem to have very positive effects on hair loss, though obviously they have powerful feminising effects too.

The problem is that for "average" men, they are proding average amounts of testosterone and larger than normal estrogen levels.

That is different from no or very little testosterone with high estrogen.

1) If estrogen is that good then why no studies showing hair recovery?
2) Why are drugs such as spironolactone such a fail?

The bolded is 100% correct, if you kill all of it you get hair growth. But when you have one or ther other...

That is why you see women with male pattern baldness and diffusse thining

The ultimate problem is AR sensitization

 

[Bryan]

i dont think estrogen plays a protective role in male pattern baldness, because when you block dht more of the testosterone converts to estrogen therefore you think you would have better growth...

But you _do_ have better growth when you use a 5a-reductase inhibitor like finasteride or dutasteride; so what's your point? :dunno:

...I think that excessive estrogen causes low libido while on propecia because of high estrogen levels also the reason why some guys experience gyno.

I doubt that the small estrogen increase from Propecia is what causes those problems.

 

[Bryan]

The problem is that for "average" men, they are proding average amounts of testosterone and larger than normal estrogen levels.

That is different from no or very little testosterone with high estrogen.

Yes, but so what? It still shows that estrogen is good for balding scalp hair.

1) If estrogen is that good then why no studies showing hair recovery?

There are certainly some old European studies which claimed to get beneficial effects for male pattern baldness by using various estrogen solutions topically on men. Those old studies aren't exactly the most carefully carried-out and conducted ones I've ever seen, compared to modern studies like some of the ones with finasteride and minoxidil that used very precise hair-counting and hair-weighing technologies; however, as a group, they _do_ supply some rather convincing arguments that estrogen does indeed help balding.

Since those early days, there have been a couple of studies by Kiesewetter et al (sp?) that clearly showed with direct in vitro experiments with biopsied human hair follilces that androgens suppress the growth of scalp follicles, while estrogen stimulates their growth. Add to that the long, lengthy, more recent study by that other expert who carefully examined the effects of estrogen on hair (I can't remember his name, but you probably know who I'm talking about), who found the same thing on two different individual patients: the in vitro addition of estrogen stimulated the growth of their balding hair follicles! Taken as a whole, all this evidence is pretty damned convincing!

2) Why are drugs such as spironolactone such a fail?

What makes you think spironolactone is a "fail"?

 

[blaze]

I think he says topical spironolactone is a fail due to it not being able to effectively halt many peoples hairloss.

You hardly see ANYONE who says they use spironolactone twice per day and they can maintain their hair.

You mostly hear of guys who have basically no success(not even talking regrowth here, just maintaining).

 

[Bryan]

Personally, I've always said that I don't think topical spironolactone is very strong. I think it's a rather mediocre antiandrogen, but it's about all we have.

 

[KP211]

I know one thing for sure is excess estrogen in men is not good im not saying its bad for hair not sure if its good either, but I do know it will cause b**ch tits and libido problems. All I know is when woman have excess androgens in their body they experience hair loss.When Im shown something convincing ,then I might believe it may be worth using a topical. I think they best thing propecia will do is halt your hair loss , at least that was my case didnt regrow much that I lost, But if it can at least do that then I think it is a winner but did have some libido problems, In which I contribute it to excess estrogen, after I took a estrogen blocker while on propecia it seemed to bring back my libido problems. never had the problem with gyno thank god. But I really think that dht and something else unknown to us is the real problem for hairloss.