Using A Sonicator Or Mechanical Homogenizer To Mix Solutions

pegasus2

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Anybody doing this?
 

whatevr

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Been using magnetic stirrer + ultrasonic bath to mix my magnesium ascorbyl phosphate liposomes for a long time now. Why?
 

whatevr

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They are alright and definitely make the job of mixing easier. Both of the devices I got from eBay / China.

The ultrasonic bath is more or less like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-3L-Stain...198840?hash=item3fe04ec738:g:cLIAAOSwHc9eopbJ
(the price of these things seems to have gone up a LOT, pretty sure I paid no more than 60 USD for the thing)

And the magnetic stirrer (closest I could find, exact model no longer sold):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnetic-S...hash=item5da7b8155a:m:mEvq8pmRnxGZ1F57b9yWS6g

With the magnetic stirrer I had the issue that the supplied EU plug crapped out on me so I had to buy another one, but otherwise they've been working fine for nearly 2 years.

As far as the MAP liposomes, I'm mainly using it as a DKK-1 inhibitor (the ascorbic acid metabolizes into threonate in the scalp which does that). I get the feeling it helps, it's cheap & side-free, so that's why I use it. No miracle though.
 

dietcoke1987

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They are alright and definitely make the job of mixing easier. Both of the devices I got from eBay / China.

The ultrasonic bath is more or less like this one:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-3L-Stain...198840?hash=item3fe04ec738:g:cLIAAOSwHc9eopbJ
(the price of these things seems to have gone up a LOT, pretty sure I paid no more than 60 USD for the thing)

And the magnetic stirrer (closest I could find, exact model no longer sold):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnetic-S...hash=item5da7b8155a:m:mEvq8pmRnxGZ1F57b9yWS6g

With the magnetic stirrer I had the issue that the supplied EU plug crapped out on me so I had to buy another one, but otherwise they've been working fine for nearly 2 years.

As far as the MAP liposomes, I'm mainly using it as a DKK-1 inhibitor (the ascorbic acid metabolizes into threonate in the scalp which does that). I get the feeling it helps, it's cheap & side-free, so that's why I use it. No miracle though.


Is there a reason why you choose that over magnesium threonate form or iccarin which is easy to find in very high concentrations 40%+ from horny goat weed extracts for DKK-1? Film forming cosmetic additives/actives such as for tightening and certain hydration formulations and also gelling agents also act as slow release mechanisms. Just as a side note since liposomal formulations can be a pain.
 

pegasus2

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Isn't DMSO already doing that?

Ethanol and PG too. Oleic acid improves it further, and keeps the drug in the follicle. I think we should be looking what we can do to improve drug delivery. It's an overlooked and key aspect for success. I think poor delivery to the HF is largely responsible for a lot of disappointing results on the forums. Even RU58841 with fantastic and fast results in bald stumptailed-macaques(an excellent model for human Androgenetic Alopecia) gives no results for a lot of people in self-experimentation.

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https://www.google.com/books/editio...on_Enhancers/2PHLBQAAQBAJ?hair loss=en&gbpv=0

The following process is too complex, but maybe we can get some of this benefit just by adding OA in solution:

OAVs were prepared by the vortex shaking method [34]. Briefly, known quantities of MXD were added to different ratio of OAs and Phospholipon 90G® (PL90G) (Table 1), which were dissolved in 2 mL of ethanol by shaking in a covered beaker. The homogeneous mixture was freeze-dried for 12 h to remove the residual organic solvent. Later, 10 mL of phosphate buffer saline (PBS, pH 7.4) were added into the beaker for film hydration with continuous vortexing at a temperature above the phase transition temperature of PL90G (60 ± 2 °C) to form cloudy suspension of OAVs. The resulting suspension was sonicated (Sonics & Materials, Newtown, CT, USA) for 15 min to reduce the vesicle size to nanometers. Later, the OAVs were extruded manually (Liposo Fast-Basic, Avestin, ON, Canada) 10 times via a polycarbonate filter (pore size 300 nm) to obtain uniform-sized vesicles. The developed MXD-OAVs were lyophilized with mannitol (5% w/v, as a cryoprotectant) using a lyophilizer (Labconco benchtop freeze-dryer system, Labconco Corporation, Kansas, MO, USA). Firstly, the suspension was pre-frozen at −80 °C for 12 h and subsequently lyophilized at a temperature of −25 °C for 24 h, followed by a secondary drying phase of 12 h at 20 °C. The finalized vesicle dispersion (0.2%) was filled in glass vials after lyophilization and stored in desiccator at 4 °C until further use. The RB-loaded OAVs were prepared using same composition and method used for MXD-OAVs, where the RB concentration was 0.1%. The control solution (MXD-Lotion) was prepared with a similar composition (propylene glycol/water/ethanol in 20:30:50 ratio) to that available on the market by dissolving 2% w/v of MXD.

The MXD-OAV-Gel yielded 10-fold superior depositions to the follicular cast as compared to MXD-Lotion (p < 0.05; one-way ANOVA with post hoc comparison by Tukey’s test), confirming that OAVs could target the hair follicles.

medicines-05-00103-g007.jpg


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6165169/

Ufasomes have been known to overcome the skin barrier, probably via lipid exchange between the SC layer and lipid carriers [23]. After penetrating through the SC into the dermis, they get washed out through the fusion of fatty acid in sebum around the hair shaft. Unlike other skin diseases, alopecia areata is specifically restricted to hair follicles. Therefore, it is essential to enhance drug absorption into the hair follicles for effective and safe treatment. Hence, the ideal formulation for hair follicle targeting should involve a composition and physical properties which can facilitate fusion of fatty acid in sebum. This makes fatty acid vesicles an attractive delivery system for targeted drug delivery to the hair follicles.

It moisturizes the skin too which is good for penetration and counteracts the drying effect of organic solvents. I think OA might even help prevent degradation of drugs in solution, but I'm not sure.

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whatevr

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whatevr

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Is there a reason why you choose that over magnesium threonate form or iccarin which is easy to find in very high concentrations 40%+ from horny goat weed extracts for DKK-1? Film forming cosmetic additives/actives such as for tightening and certain hydration formulations and also gelling agents also act as slow release mechanisms. Just as a side note since liposomal formulations can be a pain.

With threonate I had trouble getting it to dissolve in adequate concentrations and whatever I formulated at the end didn't seem to work that well. MAP seems to be the only form of Vitamin C that I've had some mild results with (likely due to its stability and ease of liposomal encapsulation).
 

whatevr

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I've been reading a little about how to do that today. Can you you explain your process?

Once you've separately dissolved your lecithin/phospholipon in ethanol and the substance you are encapsulating in water, you add them together into the magnetic stirrer for about 10 minutes. Some propylene glycol here can also help the solution:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364396/

After the magnetic stirrer is done you can transfer that to a flask and put it into the ultrasonic bath with some amount of water to form the bath around the flask so it's floating just a tiny bit off of the surface. From here you can just set it to ~30 mins, ~40°c and that'll do the job of homogenizing and further reducing the vesicle size.

Efficacy will depend on what you encapsulated, and what you encapsulated with. If you can get some Phospholipon 90 that is probably ideal, much better than soy lecithin.
 

pegasus2

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Once you've separately dissolved your lecithin/phospholipon in ethanol and the substance you are encapsulating in water, you add them together into the magnetic stirrer for about 10 minutes. Some propylene glycol here can also help the solution:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364396/

After the magnetic stirrer is done you can transfer that to a flask and put it into the ultrasonic bath with some amount of water to form the bath around the flask so it's floating just a tiny bit off of the surface. From here you can just set it to ~30 mins, ~40°c and that'll do the job of homogenizing and further reducing the vesicle size.

Efficacy will depend on what you encapsulated, and what you encapsulated with. If you can get some Phospholipon 90 that is probably ideal, much better than soy lecithin.

Have you ever tried using polysorbate 20/80 instead of lecithin? Lecithin contains glycerol which drastically reduces PG permeation.
 

rocket_hare

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Actually it is to further reduce the liposome size for better penetration and likelihood of entering the hair follicle (this was originally inspired by the homemade Brotzu lotion procedure).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2098738/

I remember getting my sonicator for this too!
Man that takes me back lol.

I ended up ditching mine, it was just way too loud for my apartment and I would like to mix my solutions later at night so wasn't a realistic option.

If there was a quieter version I'd be all over if but I don't think such a thing exists.
 

Throwaway94

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I remember getting my sonicator for this too!
Man that takes me back lol.

I ended up ditching mine, it was just way too loud for my apartment and I would like to mix my solutions later at night so wasn't a realistic option.

If there was a quieter version I'd be all over if but I don't think such a thing exists.
What on earth were you using, every sonicator I've ever used in a lab was relatively quiet. Nothing that could bother neighbours at least, even if you shared a wall.
 

whatevr

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What on earth were you using, every sonicator I've ever used in a lab was relatively quiet. Nothing that could bother neighbours at least, even if you shared a wall.

The eBay ultrasonic baths emit a really high pitched whine which is easily heard 2-3 rooms away through closed doors. Wouldn't wanna be around them when they run. The noise is substantially less if whatever container you're using isn't touching the bottom of the machine, though (it has to float in the bath).
 

Throwaway94

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The eBay ultrasonic baths emit a really high pitched whine which is easily heard 2-3 rooms away through closed doors. Wouldn't wanna be around them when they run. The noise is substantially less if whatever container you're using isn't touching the bottom of the machine, though (it has to float in the bath).

They usually come with baskets that hang off the edge - a bit like a deep fryer. Those would help with sound dampening.
 
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