some people posted that B6 helps hair. Was there a study showing this, or are they just refering to the fact that invitro it boosts zink and azelaic acid's abilities to inhibit 5ar? If the later, my dutas takes care of that. I have a bottle of B6, and am not so sure I want to take 50x the RDA unless a study shows it will help me in a way my other stuff does not.
vitamin B6 for hair?
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bryan said it did, which is why i take it. i don't remember a study being posted, although he did mention one. might want to ask him about it. i take 5000% RDA.
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docj077 said:
i take the 5000% RDA because I can't find a 2 mg dosage anywhere. All I see is 100 mg.
my multi-vitamin has 3mg of B6 as pyridoxine HCl.
I wonder if the study actually found the ideal dose, or if they randomly tested one dose against a placebo (of what size dose? 0?) and found the mega dose had more hair. Did bryan say 2mg? That is the RDA.
I wonder if that is what they did with the biotin. Even if the biotin is much better than the RDA amount, I think 1mg instead of 2.5 might do the same thing unless they actually tested different doses. I have a bulk powder so I just take 1-2mg per day. My multi-vitamin has only 10% anyway. The biotin should last me forever if I take the smaller doses.
I wonder if the study actually found the ideal dose, or if they randomly tested one dose against a placebo (of what size dose? 0?) and found the mega dose had more hair. Did bryan say 2mg? That is the RDA.
I wonder if that is what they did with the biotin. Even if the biotin is much better than the RDA amount, I think 1mg instead of 2.5 might do the same thing unless they actually tested different doses. I have a bulk powder so I just take 1-2mg per day. My multi-vitamin has only 10% anyway. The biotin should last me forever if I take the smaller doses.
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The rationale for taking vitamin B6 for hairloss rests mainly on an in vitro study from a few years ago. For some reason, it hasn't been mentioned on these sites for quite a while. The last time I saw any discussion of it was in a lengthy thread I participated in over on HLH a couple of years or so ago. I don't have a citation off the top of my head for that study, but it shouldn't be difficult to find the abstract. That guy who promotes "zix" has the citation for it in the list of medical references on his Web site.
Basically, the study found that B6 added to a culture of human cells (I forget what type of cells they were) significantly reduced the transcriptional activity of sex hormones, including androgens. If I remember correctly, it was something like about a third or so. So what we're hypothesizing here is that if a good supplement of the vitamin would work in a similar fashion in vivo, then the androgenic effect of testosterone and DHT might (presumably) be reduced by a similar amount.
God knows there are good health reasons to take a B6 supplement anyway (not the least of which is the benefit for fat metabolism and heart health), so I see no reason not to take a reasonable B6 supplement, in the hope that it might also have some benefit for our hair. I personally don't believe in "megadoses" of any vitamins, including B6; I go along with Sheldon Saul Hendler, MD PhD, when he says that there is no rationale for taking more than 50 mg/day of B6. I think the frequency that you take vitamin C and the B vitamins is more important than the absolute amount. I personally take no more than about 30 to 40 mg/day of B6, and that's in divided doses (like with each meal, and at bedtime). I think that's more than sufficient, and safe.
Bryan
Basically, the study found that B6 added to a culture of human cells (I forget what type of cells they were) significantly reduced the transcriptional activity of sex hormones, including androgens. If I remember correctly, it was something like about a third or so. So what we're hypothesizing here is that if a good supplement of the vitamin would work in a similar fashion in vivo, then the androgenic effect of testosterone and DHT might (presumably) be reduced by a similar amount.
God knows there are good health reasons to take a B6 supplement anyway (not the least of which is the benefit for fat metabolism and heart health), so I see no reason not to take a reasonable B6 supplement, in the hope that it might also have some benefit for our hair. I personally don't believe in "megadoses" of any vitamins, including B6; I go along with Sheldon Saul Hendler, MD PhD, when he says that there is no rationale for taking more than 50 mg/day of B6. I think the frequency that you take vitamin C and the B vitamins is more important than the absolute amount. I personally take no more than about 30 to 40 mg/day of B6, and that's in divided doses (like with each meal, and at bedtime). I think that's more than sufficient, and safe.
Bryan
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Ok, I found it. Here's the abstract:
FASEB J. 1994 Mar 1;8(3):343-9.
"Modulation of steroid receptor-mediated gene expression by vitamin B6." Tully DB, Allgood VE, Cidlowski JA.
Gene transcription mediated by steroid hormones has become one of the most extensively characterized model systems for studying the regulation of gene expression in eukaryotic cells. However, specific details of gene regulation by steroid hormones are often complex and may be unique in specific cell types. Diverse regulatory mechanisms leading to either activation or repression of particular genes frequently involve interactions between steroid hormone receptors and other ubiquitous and/or cell-specific transcription factors that act on the complex promoter of the regulated gene. Interplay between steroid receptor-mediated and other signal transduction pathways may also be involved. In addition, recent novel results indicate that moderate variations in the intracellular concentration of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP), the biologically active form of vitamin B6, can have pronounced modulatory effects on steroid-induced gene expression. Specifically, elevation of intracellular PLP levels leads to decreased transcriptional responses to glucocorticoid, progesterone, androgen, or estrogen hormones. Conversely, cells in a vitamin B6-deficient state exhibit enhanced responsiveness to steroid hormones. One aspect of the mechanism by which these transcriptional modulatory effects of PLP occur has recently been shown to involve interruption of functional interactions between steroid hormone receptors and the nuclear transcription factor NF1. These findings--that the vitamin B6 nutritional status of cells modulates their capacity to respond to steroid hormones--impose an additional level of cell-specific control over steroid hormone regulation of gene expression and will serve as the focal point for this review.
FASEB J. 1994 Mar 1;8(3):343-9.
"Modulation of steroid receptor-mediated gene expression by vitamin B6." Tully DB, Allgood VE, Cidlowski JA.
Gene transcription mediated by steroid hormones has become one of the most extensively characterized model systems for studying the regulation of gene expression in eukaryotic cells. However, specific details of gene regulation by steroid hormones are often complex and may be unique in specific cell types. Diverse regulatory mechanisms leading to either activation or repression of particular genes frequently involve interactions between steroid hormone receptors and other ubiquitous and/or cell-specific transcription factors that act on the complex promoter of the regulated gene. Interplay between steroid receptor-mediated and other signal transduction pathways may also be involved. In addition, recent novel results indicate that moderate variations in the intracellular concentration of pyridoxal 5'-phosphate (PLP), the biologically active form of vitamin B6, can have pronounced modulatory effects on steroid-induced gene expression. Specifically, elevation of intracellular PLP levels leads to decreased transcriptional responses to glucocorticoid, progesterone, androgen, or estrogen hormones. Conversely, cells in a vitamin B6-deficient state exhibit enhanced responsiveness to steroid hormones. One aspect of the mechanism by which these transcriptional modulatory effects of PLP occur has recently been shown to involve interruption of functional interactions between steroid hormone receptors and the nuclear transcription factor NF1. These findings--that the vitamin B6 nutritional status of cells modulates their capacity to respond to steroid hormones--impose an additional level of cell-specific control over steroid hormone regulation of gene expression and will serve as the focal point for this review.
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Bryan said:
Bryan,
will taking 100 mg a day of B6 provide at least the same benefit for hair(assuming there is a benefit) that 2 mg a day would? I ask because i can't find 10 mg tabs anywhere, so I don't know how you are taking 10 mg at each meal.
Like I wonder how much B6 was used in the study on each subject? My multi vitamin includes 2 mg which is 100% of RDA. Would that be enough to obtain benefits or should I just keep taking my 100 mg tablet a day? I just don't want it to do any harm to my body.
Thanks.
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JayMan said:
Well, I don't think it would provide LESS benefit!
JayMan said:
Yeah, and you've hit on what I consider to be a very annoying problem of modern times: as people have become more and more accustomed to taking nutritional supplements over the last three or four decades (that's how long that I personally have been taking them), the size of individual vitamin or mineral tablets/capsules has been steadily increasing. I used to be able to buy 100 mg tablets of vitamin C, but those were phased out a long long time ago. Now, just recently, I noticed that the grocery store I go to is no longer selling 250 mg tablets of C. All I can get now is 500 mg and up. That irritates the hell out of me, because I would always split the 250's in half, and take a half a few times throughout the day. Now I have to split the 500's into quarters (and their stubbier shape makes it much more difficult to do that), and take the quarters throughout the day.
But that's basically what you have to do with everything now, including B6: buy larger tablets/capsules, and divide them up into smaller doses. That's what I do now with a great many of my supplements. I use Bluebonnet "B-50" and even "B-100" capsules, and then pull the capsules apart and pour about 1/5 or 1/10 of the capsules at a time (respectively) into my mouth, to get around a 10 mg dosage of each B vitamin. A side benefit of that is that it's also very cost-effective to do it that way! :wink:
JayMan said:
Remember, it was an in vitro study, so it would be extremely difficult to "guesstimate" what oral dose would produce a similar effect in real people.
JayMan said:
I would take more than just the RDA, but not one of those huge "megadoses" that some life-extension enthusiasts take. In my opinion, 100 mg is a bit much. Why not reduce it to something more along the lines of what I take? Around 20 mg - 40 mg per day (in divided doses) seems more reasonable to me, and you'll save money, too!
Bryan
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Maybe I'll cut it into quarters and take 25 mg twice a day of B6.
thanks.
thanks.
Mine are capsules with powder in them. I want to open them all and dump them in a small container, and scoop out a small amount throughout the day. Do you think it will oxidize?
I could also open a capsule, try not to get it all over the place, and pour a forth or fifth in my mouth ever so often. I'll shoot for 20mg per day.
I could also open a capsule, try not to get it all over the place, and pour a forth or fifth in my mouth ever so often. I'll shoot for 20mg per day.