We need an estrogenic topical.

[CCS]

2.5mg per day of dutasteride regrew significantly more hair than finasteride or 0.5mg per day of dutasteride. Why? I thought androgen stuff just stopped hair loss. dutasteride is not a growth stimulant. Could reducing DHT levels a bit more have a significant improvement in hair regrowth? I think not.

I think with so much DHT reduction, and extra testosterone, a lot of the testosterone was turned into estrogen. Anyone have estrogen data from that study?

I think estrogen does the opposite of what DHT does. I think it can reverse what DHT does. I think the 2.5mg dutasteride people had more estrogen in their scalps.

The problem is topical estrogen goes systemic and gives you gyno.

We need something that works locally like estrogen, but does not go systemic. Some needs to search for something. Lavender goes systemic, and might not even be estrogenic. The closest thing I know if is those two soy protein isolates. I forget the name, but it looked like "geinstein" or something like that, and I forgot what the second one was. There was a study posted on here with those and the test group regrew a ton of hair. But they had the stuff isolated. The stuff you buy at supplement stores is very dilute. You just get 25mg per table spoon of soy protein. I wish I could get it more pure.

Anyone know where to get the best source, or of any other good local estrogenic compounds?

We want
androgen receptor blockers -- EGCG, spironolactone, ru
5 alpha reductase blockers -- finasteride
growth stimulants -- minoxidil
anti inflamatories -- nizoral
maybe repair stuff -- tricomin
and estrogenic stuff --- soy isolates like Geinstein

 

[purecontrol]

Well you had the guy that used Nolvadex and regrew a lot of hair, it both acts as an estrogen and anti-estrogen. If you use this 1) you get the possible benefits of the estrogen 2) you avoid the negative side effects of the estrogen

Why would the higher level of dutasteride. help? Also from all those forums for dutasteride. I keep reading people losing all their hair.

Perhaps the real point is not estrogen, rather anything that will occupy the receptor so that DHT and/or test. (all other androgens) can not bind to the site. The point is to reduce the number of ARs wich increase in response to inflamation, oxidation, cortisol, etc.

If it was just estrogen then women should not being getting male pattern baldness and other typyes of androgen related hair loss.

The topical soy may be a good idea?

Personally I did not notice any real regrowth until I address the inflamation issue and then I almost completely recoverd my temples.

 

[KeepTheHair]

From minoxidil.com

Q. What does spironolactone have to do with treating male pattern baldness?
A. There are three distinct benefits of topical spironolactone in its use as a treatment for male pattern baldness. (1). Spironolactone significantly reduces the amount of DHT in the scalp by inhibiting the conversion of precursor steroids to DHT. (2). Spironolactone reduces DHT in the scalp by converting localized testosterone into estrogen, which is thought to be protective of the hair follicles. (3). Spironolactone blocks the follicular androgen receptor sites, thereby rendering any residual or circulating DHT harmless to the hair follicles.



So, spironolactone already kinda does the estrogen thing. I think.

 

[captain_que]

I read that the anabolic steroids users drug of choice to prevent testosterone from being converted to estrogen was Armidex. It´s still prety expensive so some use Nolvadex which was already mentioned..

Edit: $8 a pop for Armidex.

 

[purecontrol]

I read that the anabolic steroids users drug of choice to prevent testosterone from being converted to estrogen was Armidex. It´s still prety expensive so some use Nolvadex which was already mentioned..

Edit: $8 a pop for Armidex.

Arimidex is an aromatse inhibitor, that is the opposite of what CCS is asking for.

 

[hairrific]

WE NEED TOPICAL EQUOL!!!

 

[blaze]

EGCG does not work.

Michael Barry tested the stuff with sebutape strips and said it basically did nothing.

I have read quite a few stories of woman who use(d) Tamoxifen(Nolvadex) for their breast cancer and it wasnt that uncommon for the woman to complain of hairloss. So I dont thnik that is an option.

Raloxifene on the other hand I have never seen anyone report hairloss as a side effect yet. It binds to the receptors in the chest and has an antagonistic effect on them. But on the bones and other places of the body it has an agonistic effect. Someone posted a study on another message board on how raloxifene was shown to benefit the skin but tamoxifen was not to. Estrogen is known to be good for skin. So if raloxifene is beneficial for skin it stands to reason it could have postive estrogenic effects on the hair follicle which is part of the skin.

 

[CCS]

I doubt spironolactone does all that. I'd like to use spironolactone but it is expensive.

As for the egcg, what vehicle did he use and how did he apply it?

I do not recommend any of those oral drugs. As for women who lose their hair, their follicles don't make as much estrogen as other women's do.

 

[KeepTheHair]

spironolactone is expensive?


$30 for 4 ounces, should last you 2 months if you use it regularly and only a thin layer. It really isn't that expensive man.


I use spironolactone, but only on some days.

 

[curiouscharles]

Personally I did not notice any real regrowth until I address the inflamation issue and then I almost completely recoverd my temples.

may I ask... how did you deal with the inflammation?

 

[purecontrol]

Personally I did not notice any real regrowth until I address the inflamation issue and then I almost completely recoverd my temples.

may I ask... how did you deal with the inflammation?

I used;

2grams fish oil +1gram GLA oil right before bed
1/2 tab of methylated folate every other day
500mg Grape Seed Extract every day
250mg Chocamine every day
1gram Chlorella every day
Oral/topical/injectable hyaluronic acid


Other things to add in would be 1gram of magnesium turate every day, 500mg tocotrienol every day, and a mitochondrial anti-oxidant ie idebenone or a real SOD preferably injectable and preferably the MnSOD. Also anything that will keep cortisol low in theory is supposed to help a lot.

I had to change my eating habits, my sleep habits, and exercising also.

1)Work out; I will do 15min. high intensity cardio and then work out.
2)Eating; I do not eat carbs+fat, it is either protien+fat or carbs+protien, and I keep my fat consumption a low as possible. No processed food at all, and nothing in plastic ever, or teflon. Important to eat often and right away when waking up in order to keep cortisol low.
3)Sleeping; I am in bed 9-9:30pm zero light exposure until I wake up and it is stright into direct sunlight.

 

[curiouscharles]

I'll definitely pick up those supplements - not sure if I can handle your eating regimen, or resist training my cardio through running an hour at a time. Food will be the hardest, I've already given up gluten, which restricts my choices quite a bit - plus I'm a trained chef, so it's hard for me to resist culinary creativity.

Explain to me why whey protein calms down cortisol after exercise?

 

[Bryan]

I used;

2grams fish oil +1gram GLA oil right before bed

I think what you meant to say is that you used some kind of oil that happens to contain some GLA in it. You certainly didn't use 1 gram of GLA itself!

 

[purecontrol]

I'll definitely pick up those supplements - not sure if I can handle your eating regimen, or resist training my cardio through running an hour at a time. Food will be the hardest, I've already given up gluten, which restricts my choices quite a bit - plus I'm a trained chef, so it's hard for me to resist culinary creativity.

Explain to me why whey protein calms down cortisol after exercise?

You can still eat rice, and thus rice noodles etc. after workouts.

It is all about energy use, once you start using up all those energy stores then your body starts breaking things down ie amino acids in order to keep going. So the amino acids such as alaine and leucine give your body a "fed" signal so that it does not break anything down any further. You can drink it during and add in the alaine as well to the drink.

As for the food, I would simply just leave that to say 1-2 days a week, and after a work out. Eat what you want, and since you are a chef you will be using good oils anyways ie grape seed and macadamia, they are even better than olive oil. We aren't robots, but we want to get in as many "good" days as we can.

Give the diet a try, also you don't want to eat 2hrs before bed, high insulin especially before bed keeps cortisol up and reduce melatonin and the overal quality of the sleep.

Remember the studies of how beneficial melatonin is to hair folicles, great anti-oxidant, and reduces cortisol.

I am going to try out a supplement that actually increases the amount of melatonin you produce and other asociated hormones. From what I have seen oral consumption of melatonin never pans out to work as theorized.

If I could pick just three it would be the fishoil, grape seed extract, methylated folate. The pH is really important as well, and chlorella will put your pH right up there. Remember the high the pH the longer and harder you can run for.

 

[curiouscharles]

You're being extremely helpful PC, just want to thank you for that first off.

I picked up everything but the folate today - mostly because I couldn't find a verifiably methylated format of it, going to have to continue trying to source that. I also get quite a bit of folate in my diet already (lots of leafy greens, broccoli, spinach, rocket, mixed salad, asparagus, asian cabbages, and fish).

I can definitely do the diet you mentioned one or two days a week - I'll try that out. Have never been able to stave off eating before bed, but now that you mention the connection to melatonin and cortisol I'll definitely ban that forever.

Thanks again PC - please never hesitate to update us/me with your anti-inflammatory adventures.

 

[curiouscharles]

It is all about energy use, once you start using up all those energy stores then your body starts breaking things down ie amino acids in order to keep going. So the amino acids such as alaine and leucine give your body a "fed" signal so that it does not break anything down any further. You can drink it during and add in the alaine as well to the drink.

Forgot to quote this - is the fact that your body stops breaking things down any further related to hair health - or just physical condition?

 

[purecontrol]

You're being extremely helpful PC, just want to thank you for that first off.

I picked up everything but the folate today - mostly because I couldn't find a verifiably methylated format of it, going to have to continue trying to source that. I also get quite a bit of folate in my diet already (lots of leafy greens, broccoli, spinach, rocket, mixed salad, asparagus, asian cabbages, and fish).

I can definitely do the diet you mentioned one or two days a week - I'll try that out. Have never been able to stave off eating before bed, but now that you mention the connection to melatonin and cortisol I'll definitely ban that forever.

Thanks again PC - please never hesitate to update us/me with your anti-inflammatory adventures.

One thing that needs to be mentioned is that I am "under-methylator" That is why I used methylated folate. If you are an "over-mehtylator" then you would use folate.

So you and others may want to look at those terms and their symptoms, and if you don't have either of those problems, then you would still stick with the regular folate.

Remember the reson you are using this is because it is a strong cox-2 inhibitor.

 

[purecontrol]

It is all about energy use, once you start using up all those energy stores then your body starts breaking things down ie amino acids in order to keep going. So the amino acids such as alaine and leucine give your body a "fed" signal so that it does not break anything down any further. You can drink it during and add in the alaine as well to the drink.

Forgot to quote this - is the fact that your body stops breaking things down any further related to hair health - or just physical condition?

You end up with inflamation and it litteraly starts stealing form the cells, the cells "building" priority changes. Look up cortisols effects on hair, and other tissues.

Too much cortisol at any one time = bad, it is the excess and the frequency at which that excess accours that is the problem.

 

[riptiduh]

Remember the studies of how beneficial melatonin is to hair folicles, great anti-oxidant, and reduces cortisol.

I am going to try out a supplement that actually increases the amount of melatonin you produce and other asociated hormones. From what I have seen oral consumption of melatonin never pans out to work as theorized.

Ok, wait a minute, explain this again?

FYI, there is a sublingual Melatonin supplement at GNC (yea i know GNC, last place I buy supplements). 1mg pills. This goes straight to the blood from what I know of sublingual medications and supplements.. Moreso, I know by fact it works because I take .25mg 20 minutes before I go to bed. I am seriously drunk walking to my bed at night after .25mg of this lol

 

[purecontrol]

Remember the studies of how beneficial melatonin is to hair folicles, great anti-oxidant, and reduces cortisol.

I am going to try out a supplement that actually increases the amount of melatonin you produce and other asociated hormones. From what I have seen oral consumption of melatonin never pans out to work as theorized.

Ok, wait a minute, explain this again?

FYI, there is a sublingual Melatonin supplement at GNC (yea i know GNC, last place I buy supplements). 1mg pills. This goes straight to the blood from what I know of sublingual medications and supplements.. Moreso, I know by fact it works because I take .25mg 20 minutes before I go to bed. I am seriously drunk walking to my bed at night after .25mg of this lol

The results just don't pan out, it seems that it would be better to take a supplement that allows the body to increase the release of not only melatonin but othe related hormones as well. It needs to cycle, this way it can cycle the hormone as needed, the over levels are higher though.

If what you are doing works for you, you should keeping doing what you feel is correct. I am simply looking for the "optimal" effect.