What happens if you get prostate cancer

[AussieExperiment]

Has anyone given any thought to what would happen if you are on dutasteride now and in say 15 years you get prostate cancer? You will have no options open to you because you will already be on the best drug. There have been no long-term studies performed on Dutasteride for hairloss so no one can say with 100% conviction that the human body won't develop a resistance to the drug over 15-20 years.

Please don't say that hair is more important to you than prostate cancer. Cancer is a painful, painful way to die. It is not funny and shouldn't be taken lightly.

What are your thoughts?

 

[hair today gone tomorrow]

oh, Im sure NO new prostate drugs will be coming out within the next 20 years.. :roll:

 

[hairwegoagain]

Dutasteride is not for the treatment of prostate cancer. It is for the treatment of BPH.

 

[AussieExperiment]

I know

oh, Im sure NO new prostate drugs will be coming out within the next 20 years.. :roll:

Guys I am not saying that you shouldn't use dutasteride. In fact I think I will switch over shortly aswell. I also am pretty confident that within the next decade even better drugs will come out. Just something I was thinking about

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

Has anyone given any thought to what would happen if you are on dutasteride now and in say 15 years you get prostate cancer? You will have no options open to you because you will already be on the best drug. There have been no long-term studies performed on Dutasteride for hairloss so no one can say with 100% conviction that the human body won't develop a resistance to the drug over 15-20 years.

Please don't say that hair is more important to you than prostate cancer. Cancer is a painful, painful way to die. It is not funny and shouldn't be taken lightly.

What are your thoughts?

What a dumb scenario and dumb topic......... What if taking dutas now saves me from having prostate cancer in the future? What if my trip to the pharmacy saved my life because while I was picking up my proscar I avoided walking down the street and getting hit by a car?

 

[AussieExperiment]

whatever

WorldofWarcraft it doesn't matter how you get your proscar, it isn't going to determine whether or not you get cancer.

The fact is
1. Dutasteride is the best option we have for BPH at the moment and
2. no one knows if the body will generate a resistence to the drug

These are 2 facts you cannot deny.

Lastly BPH is quite common in men. Therefore, this not not a crazy situation to consider.

Being positive is great, but being reckless and stupid...
Ignorance is not always bliss my friend.

As I said, I am not saying that taking Dutasteride is bad. In fact I may make the switch soon myself. I just think that people should be aware of these posibilities so that they can make the best decision for themselves.

 

[hair_tomorrow]

Not a doctor - but I do know that prosate problems (BPH and cancer) are unfortnately all too common in men over the age of 40 whether you use dutasteride or not.

If you do get prosate cancer, it's chemo to help erradicate the cancer cells, an operation to get the prostate removed, and a diaper for a little while (2 coworkers have had their prostates removed and they both both recovered just fine).

One thing you can do now to help your case would be to get off coffee and colas. Those drinks help lead to BPH.

The other thing, after the age of 30 - a regular annual prostate exam is a "Must".

 

[Bryan]

Re: whatever

WorldofWarcraft it doesn't matter how you get your proscar, it isn't going to determine whether or not you get cancer.

If you start using it early enough, it will.

 

[Jacobo]

Re: whatever

WorldofWarcraft it doesn't matter how you get your proscar, it isn't going to determine whether or not you get cancer.

If you start using it early enough, it will.

No comments about this? This is a serious good new. IT WILL implies certainty, doesn't it? Why are you so sure? Is there any medical evidence, like the pseudohermap. or is based in common sense?

We have to remember that for if you are a non smoker male, and your lifestyle is healthish, and you live in a developed country, prostate problems are your first health risk. If Finas or dutas help with this, the benefits are bigger than any risks associated with their use. And you keep your hair as a poetic side effect.

I hope this post make sense

 

[Jojje]

Has anyone given any thought to what would happen if you are on dutasteride now and in say 15 years you get prostate cancer? You will have no options open to you because you will already be on the best drug. There have been no long-term studies performed on Dutasteride for hairloss so no one can say with 100% conviction that the human body won't develop a resistance to the drug over 15-20 years.

Please don't say that hair is more important to you than prostate cancer. Cancer is a painful, painful way to die. It is not funny and shouldn't be taken lightly.

What are your thoughts?

they have a new mini robotic surgical device that can precision cut out the cancer, and it is used at this moment on people with prostate cancer.
So you dont have to worry

 

[Bryan]

Re: whatever

WorldofWarcraft it doesn't matter how you get your proscar, it isn't going to determine whether or not you get cancer.

If you start using it early enough, it will.

No comments about this? This is a serious good new. IT WILL implies certainty, doesn't it? Why are you so sure? Is there any medical evidence, like the pseudohermap. or is based in common sense?

Yes, I base that mainly on the pseudohermaphrodites, who apparently never develop prostate enlargement or prostate cancer. I also base it on something I read in a medical journal article: castration PRIOR to the age of about 40 (I believe that was the age they specified) will prevent the future development of prostate cancer, but not castration AFTER the age of about 40.

Obviously the earlier you are when you start taking finasteride, the closer you get to achieving the same effect as being a pseudohermaphrodite.

We have to remember that for if you are a non smoker male, and your lifestyle is healthish, and you live in a developed country, prostate problems are your first health risk. If Finas or dutas help with this, the benefits are bigger than any risks associated with their use. And you keep your hair as a poetic side effect.

I totally agree with you!

 

[Jacobo]

Re: whatever

[ I also base it on something I read in a medical journal article: castration PRIOR to the age of about 40 (I believe that was the age they specified) will prevent the future development of prostate cancer, but not castration AFTER the age of about 40.

Even better than the pseudohermaphrodites evidence. The pseudos are born with the condition, and grow up with it during puberty. But a castrated adult is probably the perfect reference, they are not "designed" but "converted" to DHT deficiency. Same as with Finas/Dutas consumers. Bless them :lol: (the castrated, of course)

 

[IBM]

Flutamide + Oral spironolactone.

 

[abcdefg]

So bryan you advocate young men 20-30 to start on finasteride in order to prevent male pattern baldness and bph? I think the pseudohermaphradite thing is not as reliable as we think. Do they have normal testosterone levels? with how much crap is going on and in a constant state of flux how can we possibly pin point DHT as being responsible for all of these? I mean other hormones pathways, genes, and any number of envirnmental factors could all be influencing male pattern baldness and coincidentally DHT is changing with a certain combination of any or all of those factors. How can merk or anyone else possibly even guess DHT is whats doing this?

I envision some scientist recording the DHT level and then like 10 years later going oh hey look theres no 5ar2 in these pseudohermaphradite guys at puberty but normal males do . It must be DHT that causes male pattern baldness at puberty. Certainly we need more then this.

 

[Guest]

Re: whatever

Obviously the earlier you are when you start taking finasteride, the closer you get to achieving the same effect as being a pseudohermaphrodite.

Or dutasteride obviously...

but, if people are artificially simulating the pseudoherms by taking finasteride or dutasteride, why did the avg propecia hair count fall from year 1 to year 5 in the merck studies? it is a slow and gradual decline but still a decline.

the pseudohermaphrodites never lose their juvenile hairlines and never lose even one hair on their head from what i have read, correct?

so are you of the belief then that if someone had a ton of male pattern baldness history in their family, and got on finasteride before having any hair loss, that they would never lose even one hair to male pattern baldness? is it tthat hair loss is already underway when people get on finasteride and dutasteride the reason why hair counts continue to decline(albeit slowly) on finasteride?

i know you've mentioned your senescent thinning theory before, but do the pseudos have this ? it's my understanding that they don't

jayman

 

[Jacobo]

Good questions, Jayman. Another for you and Bryan: Why do you think some people doesn't benefit at all from Finas or Dutas? Why those no-responders in the trials?

 

[Bryan]

So bryan you advocate young men 20-30 to start on finasteride in order to prevent male pattern baldness and bph?

I think it's pretty clear that doing that would have a powerful beneficial effect on those two conditions.

I think the pseudohermaphradite thing is not as reliable as we think. Do they have normal testosterone levels?

Slightly elevated, just like with finasteride users. Finasteride users and pseudohermaphrodites have hormonal profiles that are strikingly similar.

with how much crap is going on and in a constant state of flux how can we possibly pin point DHT as being responsible for all of these? I mean other hormones pathways, genes, and any number of envirnmental factors could all be influencing male pattern baldness and coincidentally DHT is changing with a certain combination of any or all of those factors. How can merk or anyone else possibly even guess DHT is whats doing this?

I envision some scientist recording the DHT level and then like 10 years later going oh hey look theres no 5ar2 in these pseudohermaphradite guys at puberty but normal males do . It must be DHT that causes male pattern baldness at puberty. Certainly we need more then this.

So you doubt that DHT is a powerful influence in the etiology of male pattern baldness?

I do agree, though, that other androgens probably also have an effect on hair follicles. I find it amusing that on all the hairloss sites, the chatter is constantly DHT this, DHT that! :wink:

 

[Bryan]

Re: whatever

Or dutasteride obviously...

Yes.

but, if people are artificially simulating the pseudoherms by taking finasteride or dutasteride, why did the avg propecia hair count fall from year 1 to year 5 in the merck studies? it is a slow and gradual decline but still a decline.

I've speculated about that in the past. Possible factors are my "senescent thinning" theory, plus the fact that an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure: starting finasteride and reducing DHT to pseudohermaphrodite levels after male pattern baldness has already begun may not _quite_ be sufficient to completely halt further balding in some people, due to the effect of the remaining androgens.

the pseudohermaphrodites never lose their juvenile hairlines and never lose even one hair on their head from what i have read, correct?

Ahh...this is a perfect example of how "the Devil is in the details"!

The pseudohermaphrodites never seem to show any obvious balding, and they apparently keep their juvenile hairlines permanently, but I have no idea (and I don't think anybody else does, either) if they "never lose even one hair on their head". Wouldn't it be fascinating if Merck did the same kind of high-precision haircount testing over several years on a few pseudohermaphrodites, just like they did in the Propecia phase III trial?

so are you of the belief then that if someone had a ton of male pattern baldness history in their family, and got on finasteride before having any hair loss, that they would never lose even one hair to male pattern baldness?

Again, I'm not going to go waaaaay out on a limb and say that they would "never lose even one hair to male pattern baldness", but I think it's clear that getting on finasteride before having any hair loss at all would have a POWERFUL beneficial effect on any future loss.

is it tthat hair loss is already underway when people get on finasteride and dutasteride the reason why hair counts continue to decline(albeit slowly) on finasteride?

I strongly suspect that that's an important factor.

i know you've mentioned your senescent thinning theory before, but do the pseudos have this ? it's my understanding that they don't

That's the $64,000 question. I don't know the answer to that, and neither does anybody else. It would be fascinating to find out.

 

[lucy923]

Bryan-

Is this true that even someone in say his mid twenties that has not started male pattern baldness yet could get in finas and it would prevent it from ever starting at all?? If this is so I wish I would have known this 1 year ago right before I had the first few early signs????

 

[Bryan]

Good questions, Jayman. Another for you and Bryan: Why do you think some people doesn't benefit at all from Finas or Dutas? Why those no-responders in the trials?

I question the common assumption on hairloss sites that there are people "who don't benefit at all" from finasteride or dutasteride. I suspect that virtually everybody with true androgenetic alopecia benefits to at least _some_ degree by taking finasteride or dutasteride, even if they don't show an improvement in haircounts. In other words, their haircounts would probably have been even LOWER than they ended up, had they not used the drugs. So in that sense, I doubt that there are any true "no-responders" in the trials. All the designers of those trials can do, of course, is put the test-subjects with lowered haircounts into the "non-responder" category, which I think is probably a little misleading.