What is the "brain fog" some people talk about?

[yukoncornelius]

Hey everyone, first post here...

I'm 21, and have taken propecia for probably 3 years now... I'm pretty sure I would be near bald if I hadn't been on propecia. Some of the people on this forum, I've seen some of your pictures and laughed... shouldn't even be on the forum you have such a good amount of hair. I've finally gotten good at styling my hair to the point where I don't look THAT thin and my family has complimented me on how my hair looks alot better, its also a darker brown now. I have no problems with libido or sex drive. Anyways... I saw some people talk about Brain fog as a side effect. What exactly is this, it sounds like some of you have difficulty concentrating or focusing. I thought I was just a bad procrastinator, but whenever I"m trying to study for an exam, its very hard to focus. I want to do anything but focus on the task at hand. My mind wanders as well. However, recently, this past semester, I've had a couple episodes of random panic attacks (or thats what it seems they are from searching google). I've also been getting dizzy while eating big meals.

I hadn't thought the mind wandering or panic attacks would be related to the Propecia at all, but I saw someone on here said they had random attacks while taking finasteride, so that sparked the concern. The thing is, I"m afraid if I stop Propecia, my hair is gonna be gone pretty quickly. Any thoughts? Thanks

 

[thinning_esteem]

Would also like to hear some replys to this. I used to take panic attacks and can not handle taking them again.

 

[yukoncornelius]

Well I gotta say, after reading a thread on here in the "side effects" forum about depression with Propecia and also being linked to this

http://www.askapatient.com/viewratings. ... ort=gender


I'm either going to cut my doseage or stop. If you browse through that page, you will see repeated reports of anxiety, depression, mental foggyness and panic attacks. I definitely do relate to having mood swings that weren't normal before, as well as the anxiety. Man, I never thought this was related to Propecia, but after reading all of those comments, its way too much of a correlation to not be related.

Is it safe to cut the 1mg propecia pill in half or in quarters so it would be like taking .25mg or .5mg?

Thanks

 

[So]

The effects if Propecia, if any, are wide and varied.

I myself have experienced anxiety and frequent mood swings as have others who've suggested the same on "askapatient.com".

I simply can not credit my anxiety and mood swings to Propecia alone. I have no real proof even though my symptoms occurred around the same time as beginning my Propecia treatment.

Point being is that the symptoms I have experienced are likely phsycological
effects as a result of the stigmas associated with hair loss and not the drug Propecia.

I do not doubt that some people experience some side effects on Propecia. Some may be very legitimate, but you need to ask yourself very serious questions in order to determine the causation of your symptoms.

You need to be sure that you're not linking symptoms on the basis of coincidence.

Even some of the physical side effects reported can be brought on physiologically by inducing a certain state of being. The mind is a powerful tool that has an uncanny ability to trick individuals into "believing" anything.

For example if I were to stop my use of Propecia and my anxiety or mood swings subsided would it be safe to propose that Propecia was the cause of such symptoms in the first place? Or has my mind disassociated the theoretical adversity of Propecia and allowed myself to return to a normal state of mind. I'd tread carefully because this is the amazing mystery of your mind you are dealing with.

 

[Far Too Young]

Here's the thing:

I'm not on Propecia yet, but in the last couple of months (in which my shedding and hair loss really ramped up for the first time) I have experienced the EXACT same symptoms. I had a batch of finals this December that I got through purely on talent. Generally, if I will sit down and make myself study for a good five or six hours for any given subject, I could slide through with an A easily. But lets just say I took advantage of the talent this time around and pulled B's on a couple of finals that I should have easily aced (I did manage to squeak by with an A for the classes, though). It wasn't that I didn't want to study. I sat at my desk for hours upon hours wanting to get my damn head in the books and just couldn't! Mind wandered endlessly and sometimes not even about the hairloss. But I am still confident that at the root of all this was the anxiety I had developed.

Never suffered from insomnia before, either.

Oh yeah, did I mention I'm 18?

But I wouldn't argue that you aren't feeling these symptoms. My only observation is that I have suffered them long before finasteride has touched my system. They're probably the result of both psychological racking and the readjustment of your hormonal system. If you were taking finasteride without the prospects of hair loss, I bet these symptoms would be diminished.

 

[Far Too Young]

Well I gotta say, after reading a thread on here in the "side effects" forum about depression with Propecia and also being linked to this

http://www.askapatient.com/viewratings. ... ort=gender


I'm either going to cut my doseage or stop. If you browse through that page, you will see repeated reports of anxiety, depression, mental foggyness and panic attacks. I definitely do relate to having mood swings that weren't normal before, as well as the anxiety. Man, I never thought this was related to Propecia, but after reading all of those comments, its way too much of a correlation to not be related.

Oh come on, a lot of those side effects sound highly psychological. They could easily be induced by the anxiety of hairloss. Also, you're reading the worst side-effects that have occured in people who are willing to seek out an internet site to vent their frustrations (i.e. they are probably prone to exageration). And how do you know there isn't a certain amount of fabricated posting going on. People can get a little crazy.

I wouldn't let this sway you from propecia if you feel that your psyche would be benefited by a halt in the hair loss. I've seen it written here in multiple places that, "I would have given you an update before now, but I don't even think about hairloss now that I've slowed/halted/reversed it."

You're hearing the worst of the worst of the worst. But then again, it may have been pretty bad. The drugs been on the market in a 5 mg form for a longgg time, though. I doubt if the proclaimed side effects were this bad that it would still be widely available.

 

[jakeb]

The brain effects are real, at least for some people. I've written about my experiences many times around here:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions/viewtopic.php?p=248892#248892

 

[yukoncornelius]

You're not on propecia yet ... exactly.

Does it make sense that something which messes with your hormones, would also trigger anxiety, and mood swings? Since you get A's so easily, you should be able to conclude that as a definite possibility...

The anxiety is not sprung by thoughts of hair loss, I'm telling you... If I wasn't on Propecia, I'd have no hair, if anything propecia has been a hairsaver for me, and my family has given me compliments about my hair. Why would I have anxiety, brain fog, etc for something that has done a good thing for me??? How is it that all these people talk about similar symptoms, which they never had before, I truly do not believe its in "their head". The mind is very powerful, but so are drugs which mess with a chemical balance in your body. There was a study done in Milan, italy that pretty much showed the participants got a form of depression while on the drug. Furthermore let me just link you to a thread ON HERE, about people telling their depression story. You can argue that those symptoms are bogus, but theres no way its all a coincidence.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=23274

 

[yukoncornelius]

Thank you JakeB, I'm definitely going to start cutting the 1mg pill in half, starting tonight, and see if that does anything. I really don't think the FDA investigated this drug enough before approving it. Thank God I haven't had sexual side effects like manyyyyy people.

 

[Far Too Young]

Guys, if my memory does not betray me, finasteride has been on the market in one form or another for 15-20 years. If its mental side effects were that profound or widespread it would probably be yanked. But Yukon, I believe I misread your post. I thought that you were hesitating to take the drug because of possible side effects. If the side effects are this profound, it is very possible that a reduced dosage would moderate them as it would also moderate the primary effect of DHT reduction (of which a halt in hair loss is simply a *preferred* side effect). But furthermore, I've read here that many believe that the needed dosage of finasteride is actually less than 1 mg. It may be just like minoxidil, whose preferred side effects are not improved by increasing dosage (though less-desirable ones are). I never meant to cast aspersions on your personal side effects. I was just suggesting that you shouldn't fear a drug you've never tried because of a small minorities claimed side effects.

 

[Far Too Young]

And it seems odd that you would experience the much less common mental side effects and NOT the more common sexual ones. I guess everyone's systemic characteristics are different.

 

[yukoncornelius]

LoL, yeah if you read my first post, almost the first sentence, I've been taking 1mg Propecia for 3 years now.

 

[thinning_esteem]

Personally the reason it makes me so nervous is the symptoms seem to parellel those of such depression meds as PAXIL or EFFEXOR. I have been on both for stretches in my life and never again will even consider touching one.
The benefits just aren't worth side effects. I ended up getting the worst of the worst side effects from both, even though I didn't know there were any side effects to begin with. After a while the worst eventually wore off but the sexual side effects remained to some degree as well as tiredness.
I had a hard time seeing the benefits when I was sleeping all the time so I just came off of it.
These side effects that people are bitching about, do they go away with time?
But it doesn't hurt to try. I intend on talking to a dermo. about the side effects and how to combat them, and seeing how it affects me personally. Hey this could solve one problem I have but it could make another worse. We'll see.

 

[yukoncornelius]

You know, I don't know if it goes away over time, I doubt it. Like I said, only recently have I started to really get alot of anxiety, brain fog, etc. After reading people's experiences though and how similar they sound to mine, I find it very hard to believe that these aren't triggered by Propecia. The thread on "depression", the last post, the guy is a psychologist and even admits that when he started taking finasteride he noticed the onset of depression. The study in milan italy, the comments on the askapatient website, its too much data to shoot down as having no correlation. Especially when you see people that have anxiety/mood swings while they're on, and then they dissapear while they're off the finasteride. Not to mention, after finding out exactly what Propecia does to your body, I'm 21, and have already taken this 3 years, do I really want to take something for the rest of my life, or even till I'm 35 that completely affects a chemical balance in my body. The answer for me is starting to become very clear, hell no.

 

[Far Too Young]

Three years is a long time for it to take for those side effects to develop. Imagine if it had taken the preferred side effects that long . You might not have any hair. At least you were pretty well able to get through your college years with a decent head of hair. Once again, sorry for misreading that. I would wait and see if the sides might dissipate with a reduced dosage. I read in that strand where one guy claims to have reduced the dosage and immediately been fine for two weeks only for the sides to resume. However, with continuance of the drug at a lower dosage, the sides shouldn't dissipate immediately. I mean, maybe not. There's only one way to find out Yukon.

 

[yukoncornelius]

Yes thank goodness I've lasted through my college years, I'm approaching my last semester. It is odd that I am just now getting these mental side effects, I have my own theories why that could be. I wish I was able to grow a full beard, I'd probably sport that with a shaved, tan head and just start to live with it. I'm definitely going to be completely bald sooner or later (my dad is and so is my mom's father), and staying on propecia for 10 years isn't something that I feel is healthy for anyone. I'm starting with the pill cutting tonight, .5mg doseage, and from a thread on here, .2mg was 80-90% as effective as 1mg. I'm also going to buy some of that toppik/courve concealer which apparently works very well for diffusers like myself. I'm positive everything will work out, becuase I'm damn sure staying negative is never the answer with anxiety.

 

[Far Too Young]

You're exactly right Yukon. It surprises me that you have such a thin beard and such heavy hairloss. My own personal observation is that follicles sensitive to DHT (which your hairloss suggests) will respond in the opposite way in terms of facial hair and body hair. This early hair loss surprises me. I was one who was early to mature, and I am pretty sure that it's near completion. That said, my body hair and beard follow more closely the pattern of my grandfather who has maintained a decent head of hair well into his sixties. Maybe mine won't progress much farther. And maybe follicular sensitivity isn't uniform. I don't know. It's all so confusing. Do you have any pictures, though? I have a feeling our loss is rather similair. I'd like to see if so. I'm considering starting propecia if it could just get me through my college years.

 

[yukoncornelius]

I can probably send you some pictures, for someone my age, I'm alot worse than some of the people on here who barely have hair loss and are so worried for nothing. I'm almost certain had I not been on propecia, I'd look bald. I've gotten good with styling my hair to make it look pretty good. Propecia has definitely made the hair on the sides of my head thicker, and darker, its kinda crazy. As for the facial and body hair, that really isn't related at all to male pattern baldness, at least from my research.

Back on topic, I am cutting the doseage in half, but I truly might have found the source of my anxiety problems. I'm about 5'10, 165.... not fat, but apparently my blood pressure is quite high. I measured it earlier in the day per my mom's advice who is a nurse... it was higher than it should be. I measured it 1.5 hrs after drinking a nice cup of starbucks, and holy cow it was high, scary high in fact (but caffeine spikes blood pressure). All these things I've noticed recently, dizzyness, light headedness, they all relate to high blood pressure from my google searches. It also makes sense that I would get lightheaded while eating as the blood is going to my stomach to aid in digestion. And all of this "anxiety" started from these light headed episodes while eating, I started to think soemthing was wrong with me. This probably has led me into constant thinking of what is wrong, raising my anxiety, and blood pressure. Almost creating my own brain fog. Man, I am now fully committed to start working out, and its going to start tommorow. Is this related to Propecia, I'm not sure right now, I'm still cutting doseage per the results of the merck and independent study. Presently, I'm 80% sure this is a blood pressure problem. Phew, I feel great that I might have solved my recent problems. Working out, better diet, less alcohol, flax oil, fish oil for the win I'll keep all of you updated, blood presure is very serious and I gotta find out whats going on.

 

[jakeb]

Yeah, clearly not everyone gets the mental side effects, but I'm convinced that some people do... and it takes a long time to develop them.

I'm sure it wasn't psychological because I felt like sh*t and had no idea why. It *never* occurred to me that it would be the finasteride becuase I had been on it for 3 years... so why would trouble start now? But when I ran out and had to wait for new shipment, everything improved so dramatically that there was no doubt.

It's also interesting to me that the reports I've seen about the brain fog are from people who have used it for 2-3 years.

As a side note, I had been going to the gym for 2 years and had a real b**ch of a time trying to build any muscle. 2 1/2 months off finasteride and I'm suddenly making really decent gains. Coincidence?

 

[Far Too Young]

Yeah Yukon,

I had a couple of high blood pressure readings this summer and I'm almost completely certain that it was simply a result of my being far too sedentary. I went from working out nearly every day to doing nothing but a little bit of surfing every other day. As soon as I started doing like 30 minutes of cardio a day the blood pressure went way down, and I just plain felt better. Cardio also lowers free testosterone levles, so it can't be bad for your hairloss - weight training on the other hand, probably not so beneficial.