What is the verdict on Estradiol for hair?
- Thread starter CCS
- Start date
Although a bit early for me I think it is having a positive effect on me hair wise. Before transitioning(yes, another transperson here) I started doing propecia and keto and got good results there and I seem to be improving still.
The reason people believe estradiol/estrogen is bad is because the body might produce(notice the "might" as I don't think there have been many studies about this) more of DHT if it senses an imbalance in your hormones as DHT eats estrogen.
Basically the hormone pyramid is
DhT eats Estrogen, and estrogen eats testosterone(which is why transwomen used to overdose on estrogen before spironolactone and androcur so they could maybe overwhelm the dht and its anti-estrogen ability).
The reason people believe estradiol/estrogen is bad is because the body might produce(notice the "might" as I don't think there have been many studies about this) more of DHT if it senses an imbalance in your hormones as DHT eats estrogen.
Basically the hormone pyramid is
DhT eats Estrogen, and estrogen eats testosterone(which is why transwomen used to overdose on estrogen before spironolactone and androcur so they could maybe overwhelm the dht and its anti-estrogen ability).
Thanks GeminiX!
Another note on estradiol is that I remember reading study done on mice(alas those poor mice
) where they tested patches where they applied Estradiol Alpha and Beta on differing regions. Estradiol Beta apparently caused hair to stop growing(only as long as there were applications) but estradiol alpha caused hair to grow.
The bad thing is that it might(and probably most definitely will) get systemic which I don't mind, but for normal males that is a big no-no.
(I actually started to develop a slight gyno from propecia and for me that was a "desired" side effect).
Another note on estradiol is that I remember reading study done on mice(alas those poor mice
) where they tested patches where they applied Estradiol Alpha and Beta on differing regions. Estradiol Beta apparently caused hair to stop growing(only as long as there were applications) but estradiol alpha caused hair to grow.The bad thing is that it might(and probably most definitely will) get systemic which I don't mind, but for normal males that is a big no-no.
(I actually started to develop a slight gyno from propecia and for me that was a "desired" side effect).
- Reaction score
- 42
DarkDays said:
I've never seen such a study, or even HEARD of the body producing more DHT as some kind of "response" to estrogen. I think that's just one of those silly things you hear sometimes on hairloss sites. If anything, estrogen should actually help lower levels of androgens (including DHT), by suppressing their production by the HPTA axis. Neither do I know what you mean when you say that DHT "eats" estrogen.
DarkDays said:
Estrogen certainly downregulates the production of androgens (including DHT), but I don't know what you mean when you say that DHT "eats" estrogen. :dunno:
- Reaction score
- 42
DarkDays said:Another note on estradiol is that I remember reading study done on mice(alas those poor mice
People should understand that that the effect of estrogen on hair depends on what KIND of hair you're talking about (body hair versus scalp hair), just like with androgens! Androgens stimulate body hair, but suppress scalp hair. Estrogens suppress body hair, but stimulate scalp hair.
baldinglikeamofo
Established Member
- Reaction score
- 0
Testostrone---------------> estradiol
aromatase
Estradiol is made from testostrone via the aromatase enzyme in our bodies.
If you apply too much estradiol, this will cause negative feedback aromatase enzyme leading to accumulation of Testostrone which will conver to DHT
Hence too much estradiol equals too much DHT
aromatase
Estradiol is made from testostrone via the aromatase enzyme in our bodies.
If you apply too much estradiol, this will cause negative feedback aromatase enzyme leading to accumulation of Testostrone which will conver to DHT
Hence too much estradiol equals too much DHT
We I think we would need a slow release in order to get the estrogen into our scalp, but not so much into the blood. One way is to use more propylene gycol and less ethanol. I wonder how long it has to be on the surface to bond to the right receptors. I'd wash it off after a few hours, and only apply a small amount in the center of the balding areas. If it diffuses out a bit, it will go through more bald scalp before it goes fully systemic.
I've always wondered if certain soy isoflavons or betasitosterol might act like beta estrogen, but not have systemic effects. Beta sitosterol is taken orally, so my guess is it does have systemic effects, unless all that prostate hype is just hype.
I've always wondered if certain soy isoflavons or betasitosterol might act like beta estrogen, but not have systemic effects. Beta sitosterol is taken orally, so my guess is it does have systemic effects, unless all that prostate hype is just hype.
I found some studies on another forum. They found that 17 estradiol increased the conversion of testosterone to estradiol. Brian proposed that 17 estradiol works as a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor, since it is believed to be hormonally inert.
I read on some other forums that topical estadiol stopped hair loss in 89% of women in one study, but did not cause any regrowth. Since adding more product would likely down regulate the enzyme, I think this suggests that topical estrogen does not reduce the amount of testosterone available to convert to DHT, and rather takes a different approach.
I do know that estrogen fluctuations up or down can cause temporary sheds.
But the lack of regrowth suggests that it just stops further damage.
I think topical estrogen may be an alternative to propecia, but not a good addition. So I'm not going to use it.
I thought that estradiol and 17 a estradiol were the same thing. From the thread I read, with Brian's posts, it looks like not. Still, the possibility that 17 estradiol could up regulate aromatase is interesting. I would if that would make it better than spironolactone.
I read on some other forums that topical estadiol stopped hair loss in 89% of women in one study, but did not cause any regrowth. Since adding more product would likely down regulate the enzyme, I think this suggests that topical estrogen does not reduce the amount of testosterone available to convert to DHT, and rather takes a different approach.
I do know that estrogen fluctuations up or down can cause temporary sheds.
But the lack of regrowth suggests that it just stops further damage.
I think topical estrogen may be an alternative to propecia, but not a good addition. So I'm not going to use it.
I thought that estradiol and 17 a estradiol were the same thing. From the thread I read, with Brian's posts, it looks like not. Still, the possibility that 17 estradiol could up regulate aromatase is interesting. I would if that would make it better than spironolactone.