What is your view on/solution for drug problems?

[CCS]

The US locks up about 500,000 people a year for non violent drug offenses. It costs on average $30,000 a year to keep them in prison. They get out of prison, and now they are marked for life, and will almost certainly never get a decent job no matter how hard they try to turn their lives around. Most often what happens to people who go to jail is that they make associations with hardened criminals, and get educations on committing crimes.

Out of prison, and unable to get a decent job, or a job at all, they tend to get in touch with people they met in prison, and begin earning money illegally, eventually ending up back in prison, and back to costing the state $30,000 a year.

In the US, when a person becomes addicted to heroin, eventually they can't maintain the cost of their addiction, so they turn to stealing, prostitution etc. They share needles, contract, and spread HIV, Hepatitis, and other IV diseases. Once they contract HIV the state takes care of them, and pays for thousands of dollars worth of medications a month etc. If they end up getting arrested for the heroin, they go to jail, and cost $30,000 a year, if they get a disease, they are a very expensive drain on society.

The amount of money the US spends enforcing drug laws, then locking people up for non violent drug offenses is insane. Even if they are committing violent drug offenses, it is the prohibition that is causing the violence. Weather it be gangs fighting over drug turf, or addicts committing crimes to get the money to support their habits.

 

[CCS]

If Marijuana were legal, it could be made and sold much like Alcohol is today, rather than how alcohol was during pro-habition.

Lots of stores blown up by cartles during pro-habition.

 

[oni]

Anyone for a McJoint.......................................

What's the difference between large corporations and criminal organizations...................................they both only care about money and try to pay as little tax as possible....................... :whistle:

Please look at the list of chemicals in cigarettes, this product is controlled by big business!

And please don't give me the crap about the taxes you pay negates the health costs of cigarettes! A doctor is a resource and there are only so many to go round, if they are treating you for lung cancer they are not able to treat someone else!

 

[oni]

In the US, when a person becomes addicted to heroin, eventually they can't maintain the cost of their addiction, so they turn to stealing, prostitution etc. They share needles, contract, and spread HIV, Hepatitis, and other IV diseases. Once they contract HIV the state takes care of them, and pays for thousands of dollars worth of medications a month etc. If they end up getting arrested for the heroin, they go to jail, and cost $30,000 a year, if they get a disease, they are a very expensive drain on society.

Wrong!

There are plenty of people who maintain a heroin addiction and have stable jobs!

I think you will find that these people you are referencing to will end up costing society in one way or another!

 

[cuebald]

Banging people up for non-supply drugs offenses always seemed a little OTT imo. Especially lobbing someone in a cell for them to cluck in agony.

The UK seems a little more humane with regards to H, if you're caught with a bag and the coppers think it's percy then you'll get a court summons but you won't get slammed up, they'll give you a mandatory "drugs treatment" programme.
This usually involves going on bupes or methadone, and it's much better for society in general to keep the addicts out of prison, on a stable dose of done. (IMHO of course)
In prison they just learn more crime, and if they've done a jailhouse detox chances are as soon as they're released they'll rush out to score again (the cycle continues)
A shot of MMT a day costs less than keeping a prisoner for that same day (MMT is free on the NHS)
I've never been on MMT myself but I've heard bad stories of 6 months waiting lists... "yeah, I know you're shooting dirty dope, and the pharmacy round the corner has some 'done, but you're going to have to wait 6 months..."

Society has the stereotypical image of the dossing about junkie, lying in his own stale piss and used rigs. Yeah, there are junkies like that, just like there are pissheads lying in the gutter, but in no way is every beer drinker a pisshead.

As for cannabis, I can't see the harm in it, especially when compared to smack. The coppers waste so much time on kids with cannabis it isn't even funny. Mind you, if it was legal, then the pharma's would lose millions on their sleeping meds, arthritis meds, appetite stimulants, anxiolyics...

 

[CCS]

Anyone for a McJoint.....

Hambergers are served to kids. Weed is not. Hambergers are served on the road. Alcohol and weed are not. Difference.

What's the difference between large corporations and criminal organizations...................................they both only care about money and try to pay as little tax as possible....................... :whistle:

Criminal organizations cost police money, and they fight each other with guns since they can't call the police or use the courts to settle turf disputes. Criminal organizations don't follow any laws. Large corporations can be regulated, since they are recognized. And a little tax is better than none at all.

Please look at the list of chemicals in cigarettes, this product is controlled by big business!

That's why cigarrettes, alcohol, and drugs need to be regulated as public health hazards, but not made illegal. If we outlaw cigarrettes, we will have the same pro-habition problems we had with alcohol. But if we just regulate them, we can outlaw all the added chemicals.

And please don't give me the crap about the taxes you pay negates the health costs of cigarettes! A doctor is a resource and there are only so many to go round, if they are treating you for lung cancer they are not able to treat someone else!

Wrong. Doctors are not a zero sum game. Yes, if money doubled tomorrow, there would be a shortage. But give it 2-5 years and a lot more doctors would pour into the field to meet the demand. The percentage of GDP spent on doctors would go up, and so would the percentage of people working as doctors.
See, in the American free market we can do that. Europe can't, since they are not free over there.

 

[CCS]

I think you will find that these people you are referencing to will end up costing society in one way or another!

I'm sure they will. But the difference is if you put them in prison and pay $30,000 per year to keep them there, and then take away their ability to make money even after they get out by putting a mark on their record, you will lose far more money than if you go the regulated legalization route.

Do you at least agree with me that rehab is better than prison?
That keeping it off their record is better than destroying their ability to get jobs?
That the drug war in the United States is failing?

We can't even keep drugs out of our prisons. How can we expect to keep drugs out of the homes of free adults without treating them like prisoners?

 

[oni]

:uglylol: I love winding you up CCS.............................

But you still don't get it.........................things are not that simplistic........ :whistle:

Find something else to do CCS and stop posting so much on forums! because I do know you post on other forums!

Get on with your life! or get into politics...............................

 

[CCS]

Get on with your life! or get into politics............

I plan to run for State Assembly, and then for Congress. Probably State Assembly in 2010, then Congress in 2012. And I'll be taking petitions around soon.

The reason I post on forums is to try to get some momentum before I take the petitions around. I get 6 months to collect like 300,000 signatures. A day after the 6 months, the signatures that are 6 months old do not count. Since those people don't know they don't count, they might not know to re-sign. So I got to break down the myths and such in advance so I can get the signatures rolling.

Yeah, I post on another forum. A republican one. I has some libertarians and democrats there too.

I'd gladly get on with my life once I can rest easy knowing that good people can get into office, and that some of the worst laws are taken off the books.

 

[cuebald]

It all depends on what you mean by legalizing drugs though doesn't it.
do you mean making them [GSL] and available in any supermarket?
do you mean making them Prescription Only Medicines and you have to get a script to use them?
or making them illegal to sell but legal to carry and use?

 

[oni]

I plan to run for State Assembly, and then for Congress. Probably State Assembly in 2010, then Congress in 2012. And I'll be taking petitions around soon.

The reason I post on forums is to try to get some momentum before I take the petitions around. I get 6 months to collect like 300,000 signatures. A day after the 6 months, the signatures that are 6 months old do not count. Since those people don't know they don't count, they might not know to re-sign. So I got to break down the myths and such in advance so I can get the signatures rolling.

Yeah, I post on another forum. A republican one. I has some libertarians and democrats there too.

I'd gladly get on with my life once I can rest easy knowing that good people can get into office, and that some of the worst laws are taken off the books.

Good for you! and good luck.............................................but don't you think you are going about it in the wrong way?

Why not post under your real name if you want to be taken serious...........................that would be a start.

 

[ClayShaw]

If Marijuana were legal, it could be made and sold much like Alcohol is today, rather than how alcohol was during pro-habition.

Lots of stores blown up by cartles during pro-habition.

making pot illegal is hilarious to me. I can't plant a seed in dirt? What? Bill Hicks put it best: "How do you make nature against the law?"

personally, I think all drugs should be legal. I don't think the gov't should protect me from myself.

 

[ClayShaw]

Anyone for a McJoint.......................................

What's the difference between large corporations and criminal organizations...................................they both only care about money and try to pay as little tax as possible....................... :whistle:

Please look at the list of chemicals in cigarettes, this product is controlled by big business!

And please don't give me the crap about the taxes you pay negates the health costs of cigarettes! A doctor is a resource and there are only so many to go round, if they are treating you for lung cancer they are not able to treat someone else!

Please. Smoking is a personal choice. There are plenty of health problems out there that are preventable. Are fat people hoarding doctors? Are snowboarders or anyone else into extreme sports monopolizing emergency rooms? Are drunks overusing doctors to keep their livers up and running?
I agree with smoking bans in public buildings. I don't agree with them in private establishments (bars) where people choose to go.
I'm also assuming you don't take Propecia. A dermatologist is a resource, and there are only so many to go around! Besides, what Propecia does to your liver probably isn't that much better than what cigarettes do to your lungs. Well, ok, its probably better, but its definitely not good for you.
I don't want the people who shop at Whole (Paycheck) Foods to tell me what I can and can't put in my body.

 

[s.a.f]

I plan to run for State Assembly, and then for Congress. Probably State Assembly in 2010, then Congress in 2012. And I'll be taking petitions around soon.

I'd gladly get on with my life once I can rest easy knowing that good people can get into office, and that some of the worst laws are taken off the books.

At least we know that the futures of America's comedy writers are safe.

 

[socks]

First off, cannabis should be legalized. No intelligent person who has done unbiased researched can possible come to the conclusion that a man should be locked up for its use, possession, or sale.

As far as drugs in general, more emphasis should be placed on tough sentences for those who sell narcotics and rehabilitation for the users of narcotics. To balance it out I would have a special drug clause that would state if a crime is committed while under the influence or possession of a narcotic the sentence would have a mandatory doubled or even tripled penalty.

No one wants to increase the chance of drugs in their neighborhood causing drug related crime, BUT at the same time if someone wants to engage in a self-destructive behavior in the privacy of their own home without affecting anyone else, why the hell should we care?

 

[The Gardener]

First off, cannabis should be legalized. No intelligent person who has done unbiased researched can possible come to the conclusion that a man should be locked up for its use, possession, or sale.

As far as drugs in general, more emphasis should be placed on tough sentences for those who sell narcotics and rehabilitation for the users of narcotics. To balance it out I would have a special drug clause that would state if a crime is committed while under the influence or possession of a narcotic the sentence would have a mandatory doubled or even tripled penalty.

No one wants to increase the chance of drugs in their neighborhood causing drug related crime, BUT at the same time if someone wants to engage in a self-destructive behavior in the privacy of their own home without affecting anyone else, why the hell should we care?

Reminds me of the Cornell Corrections scandal. They are a private incarceration company that makes money from the government outsourcing inmate detention to their privately run jails. In Rhode Island I believe, they bankrolled candidates for the State Legislature and in return, these candidates helped ram through strict "mandatory minimum" sentences for even non-violent drug offenders.

I think you can do the math on that one.

There was an insider trading angle on it as well, nice profits can be made if you know a company is going to get a sizeable uptick in business as a result of new legislation.

 

[Petchsky]

Cannabis should be legalised, making it against the law makes the law look like an ***.

 

[ClayShaw]

First off, cannabis should be legalized. No intelligent person who has done unbiased researched can possible come to the conclusion that a man should be locked up for its use, possession, or sale.

As far as drugs in general, more emphasis should be placed on tough sentences for those who sell narcotics and rehabilitation for the users of narcotics. To balance it out I would have a special drug clause that would state if a crime is committed while under the influence or possession of a narcotic the sentence would have a mandatory doubled or even tripled penalty.

No one wants to increase the chance of drugs in their neighborhood causing drug related crime, BUT at the same time if someone wants to engage in a self-destructive behavior in the privacy of their own home without affecting anyone else, why the hell should we care?

The problem I have with this is that making drugs illegal empowers those who sell drugs on the black market. Look at Mexico, or any inner city neighborhood in America. Thats why I want to see all drugs legalized.
People are going to want to get high, whether drugs are legal or not. If they're illegal, then you create a class of super criminals making enormus profits from the sale of illegal drugs. Of those groups of super criminals, the most famous right now is probably the Taliban.

 

[ali777]

Anyone for a McJoint.....

Hambergers are served to kids. Weed is not. Hambergers are served on the road. Alcohol and weed are not. Difference.

TBH, joint might be healthier than the burgers.

Forget about legalising drugs and stuff, if I was a politician, one of my first policy changes would be to ban the use of hydrogenated fat in "kids" food. I'm pretty sure those hamburgers cost the taxpayers more money in health costs than the weed.

 

[oni]

ClayShaw....................did you read the whole thread? :jackit: