Why Can Nobody Acknowledge This Truth About (oral) Spirinolactone?

[spirotrt]

If someone is on testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) this means that they won't suffer from the low t effects of sprionolactone. That's because they are bringing in exogenous testosterone. More evidence of this is that bodybuilders (who are using exogenous hormones obviously) use spironolactone before their shows, to cut water, and they are still huge and muscular on stage. If they were becoming estrogenic/girls they would lose all of their muscle. Come on guys... very simple observation.

Moreover, if your body is not producing any natural testosterone, spirinolactone cant convert the testosterone to estrogen. This is because spironolactone as i understand it works on the production level, and it will not act to convert the existing (exogenous) testosterone to estrogen because it can't, because again it functions on the production level.

So as far as I understand, men on trt can take spirinolactone without experiencing any ill effects. In fact I've been taking 200mg spironolactone last 2 weeks everyday, and no itchy nipples or estrogen effects and my hair seems to be getting stronger but its too early to say. I have nolva on hand in the case of gynos.

 

[Retinoid]

spironolactone does inhibit a mild to moderate degree of Androgen production which will decrease Testosterone and Estrogen. It also blocks Androgen receptors and activates Estrogen receptors mildly. So your premise of, just take TrT and you will be fine is incorrect. Side effects occur when hormones are imbalanced. Just because you are taking exogenous testosterone does not solve the fact that you are blocking Androgen receptors, the testosterone will convert to estrogen and activate those receptors and spironolactone also activates the estrogen receptors.

 

[Maave]

More evidence of this is that bodybuilders (who are using exogenous hormones obviously) use spironolactone before their shows, to cut water, and they are still huge and muscular on stage. If they were becoming estrogenic/girls they would lose all of their muscle. Come on guys... very simple observation.

Bodybuilders only take spironolactone for about 1 week before a show. 1 measly week isn't going to have ANY effect on their muscle. Changes from low T like muscle loss take months to notice. Transgender women taking spironolactone don't go from guy to girl in a week. It's months for even moderate effects.

spironolactone blocks androgen receptors and blocks some steroidogenic enzymes (which reduces production of T). It does both of those.

You're right that sprio doesn't convert T to E.
If you have unbound T in your body then it may convert to E by aromatization. Bodybuilders experience this when they're taking lots of T and get gyno. Some of that excess T gets turned to E. I believe the same thing is happening with other drugs like bicalutamide or finasteride which cause in higher T levels, indirectly causing higher E.

You're not getting many answers because it's a rare situation. People don't normally take T and spironolactone at the same time.

 

[hemingway_the_mercenary]

You’re an idiot dude. No surprise there tho just your average HairLossTalk.com member

 

[abcdefg]

Anyone that thinks a paper or two is some stone god given description that works according to some perfect formula how it effects someone is pretty stupid. There is plenty of guesswork with exactly what and how hormones work in general. Your not going to be right all the time we just dont know how it works exactly. What does a 5 percent increase in estrogen mean vs a 10 percent? No one knows

 

[spirotrt]

Bodybuilders only take spironolactone for about 1 week before a show. 1 measly week isn't going to have ANY effect on their muscle. Changes from low T like muscle loss take months to notice. Transgender women taking spironolactone don't go from guy to girl in a week. It's months for even moderate effects.

spironolactone blocks androgen receptors and blocks some steroidogenic enzymes (which reduces production of T). It does both of those.

You're right that sprio doesn't convert T to E.
If you have unbound T in your body then it may convert to E by aromatization. Bodybuilders experience this when they're taking lots of T and get gyno. Some of that excess T gets turned to E. I believe the same thing is happening with other drugs like bicalutamide or finasteride which cause in higher T levels, indirectly causing higher E.

You're not getting many answers because it's a rare situation. People don't normally take T and spironolactone at the same time.

Hi i appreciate your response but it doesnt stand.

I got a blood test after taking 2 weeks spironolactone and my t and e levels are exactly the same. Are you saying then it stops it at the receptor site? so my serum levels wont change?

then gynos would be impossible because you need a certain e level and low t level to have it. maybe this is why i havent experienced this side

 

[InvaderZim]

While oral spironolactone 200 mg definitely lowers T levels, I don't think it will reach female levels.

I think you will reach female levels if you go for full HRT, so estrogen, estradiol, or even medroxyprogesterone (they castrate pedophiles with it), etc.

I want to try oral spironolactone at 200 mg, but I'm scared of possible gynaecomastia.

 

[InvaderZim]

Hi i appreciate your response but it doesnt stand.

I got a blood test after taking 2 weeks spironolactone and my t and e levels are exactly the same. Are you saying then it stops it at the receptor site? so my serum levels wont change?

then gynos would be impossible because you need a certain e level and low t level to have it. maybe this is why i havent experienced this side

Check out this oral spironolactone 200 mg study in Greece. You might find it interesting, because that study found no significant changes in testosterone levels in test subjects taking 200 mg/day of spironolactone for hair loss.

No marked changes in the endocrine parameters were observed as a result of treatment, with serum testosterone being slightly elevated in one of the female patients both of whom had polycystic ovary syndrome. A marked reduction in the rate of daily hair loss and an improvement in the trichogram score were noted during treatment, in all 4 cases, but with a partial relapse following its cessation (Table 1).

The study: https://www.alopezie.de/diskussion/frauen/uploads/Spironolactone_Study_.htm

 

[spirotrt]

Check out this oral spironolactone 200 mg study in Greece. You might find it interesting, because that study found no significant changes in testosterone levels in test subjects taking 200 mg/day of spironolactone for hair loss.

No marked changes in the endocrine parameters were observed as a result of treatment, with serum testosterone being slightly elevated in one of the female patients both of whom had polycystic ovary syndrome. A marked reduction in the rate of daily hair loss and an improvement in the trichogram score were noted during treatment, in all 4 cases, but with a partial relapse following its cessation (Table 1).

The study: https://www.alopezie.de/diskussion/frauen/uploads/Spironolactone_Study_.htm

ok so maybe i will play devils advocate on myself..

so with that study and my own blood tests i know that my serum T and E have not changed when compared to previous bloods.

I think what the other man was saying that it affects it at the RECEPTOR site. So the "usability" of testosterone decreases and the usability of estrogen increases. Following this theory though, let's say someone has normal estrogen levels. I don't see how that estrogen, even if it's used in its full capacity, could cause man boobs.

I've been on this drug for 2 weeks. Maybe an upadate in another month will give a far more accurate picture as to what's going on. But so far I have experienced no side effects. The only slight problem i have is that it makes me look a bit "skinny" because of the water loss. I will be monitoring my potassium levels.

 

[spirotrt]

You’re an idiot dude. No surprise there tho just your average HairLossTalk.com member

your parents raised you wih no respect

 

[InvaderZim]

ok so maybe i will play devils advocate on myself..

so with that study and my own blood tests i know that my serum T and E have not changed when compared to previous bloods.

I think what the other man was saying that it affects it at the RECEPTOR site. So the "usability" of testosterone decreases and the usability of estrogen increases. Following this theory though, let's say someone has normal estrogen levels. I don't see how that estrogen, even if it's used in its full capacity, could cause man boobs.

I've been on this drug for 2 weeks. Maybe an upadate in another month will give a far more accurate picture as to what's going on. But so far I have experienced no side effects. The only slight problem i have is that it makes me look a bit "skinny" because of the water loss. I will be monitoring my potassium levels.

I'm considering oral spironolactone 200 mg ED as well. I have an appointment next week.

Do you think oral spironolactone needs to be taken with finas or dutas?

Btw, you might find this old thread interesting. An user, named Bryan (unfortunately he's no longer with us), had a discussion about oral spironolactone 200 mg and testosteron levels. He was a very knowledgeable user.

The thread: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/anyone-see-results-with-spironolactone.39951/

 

[Maave]

Hi i appreciate your response but it doesnt stand.

I got a blood test after taking 2 weeks spironolactone and my t and e levels are exactly the same. Are you saying then it stops it at the receptor site? so my serum levels wont change?

then gynos would be impossible because you need a certain e level and low t level to have it. maybe this is why i havent experienced this side

Yes exactly. Your serum levels should not change much (probably not at all since you take T). The receptors will be blocked so that the T can't bind to it.

About gyno. T in breasts tissue inhibits the effect of E. So blocking T in the body with spironolactone may still cause gyno.

I think that taking spironolactone will be similar to just lowering your TRT dose. This is a guess. Feel free to continue using spironolactone. Let us know in a couple months if you have any side effects. That's realistically how long it will take to notice sides.

 

[spirotrt]

I'm considering oral spironolactone 200 mg ED as well. I have an appointment next week.

Do you think oral spironolactone needs to be taken with finas or dutas?

Btw, you might find this old thread interesting. An user, named Bryan (unfortunately he's no longer with us), had a discussion about oral spironolactone 200 mg and testosteron levels. He was a very knowledgeable user.

The thread: https://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/threads/anyone-see-results-with-spironolactone.39951/

I'm taking it with dutasteride. Based on other threads I read, people who go oral spironolactone route also use dutas. I suppose it's very important because spironolactone, while being an anti-androgen, isn't a DHT inhibitor in the strict sense. Thank you for that information.

Yes exactly. Your serum levels should not change much (probably not at all since you take T). The receptors will be blocked so that the T can't bind to it.

About gyno. T in breasts tissue inhibits the effect of E. So blocking T in the body with spironolactone may still cause gyno.

I think that taking spironolactone will be similar to just lowering your TRT dose. This is a guess. Feel free to continue using spironolactone. Let us know in a couple months if you have any side effects. That's realistically how long it will take to notice sides.

I am waiting to see if any sides that would happen. From what I understand I should have high concentration of spironolactone in my system after taking 200mg for some time. So far my sex drive is just the same, I can lift same amount of weights (no strength decrease), nothing about my personality has changed. I can already notice that I am barely shedding any hair. Too early to say regrowth.

What I'm thinking is, surely by this point spironolactone would be very active in my system. Why hasn't this translated into sexual side effects? Like if someone takes pure estrogen for some days they have itchy nipples straight away and get immediate sides. spironolactone has short half life if i remember right.

Also i kno you werent the one who said this but i dont like the talk that oral spironolactone is "mild". I have seen on forums people regrow all of their hair on this drug. It's stronger than anything else normally used for male pattern baldness.

 

[InvaderZim]

Keep us updated.