zix question

[outgrowth]

hey guys.. im new here..

i wanted to ask something.. im going to make a zix solution:

1. should i use the whole vitamin B6 (pyridoxine, pyridoxal and pyridoxamin) or only the PYRIDOXAL? because there are some articles saying that pyridoxine stimulates 5alphareductase and pyridoxal inhibits it.. since there is a lot pyridoxine in B6, i was thinking about only pyridoxal..?!?! what is better?

2. should i put or not, in the solution, azelaic acid?? if yes, what %?

thanks!

 

[Cassin]

Consider this first......

************************************************************

Studies have found that ionic zinc can inhibit 5-alpha reductase (type I) but zinc has no effect on type II reductase. Some studies have found that the combination of B6, zinc salts and azelaic acid, even at low concentrations, caused a 90% inhibition of 5-alpha reductase activity - but this is still not hair growth. In some persons zinc salts are often used in disorders related to excess DHT such as acne and prostrate hyperplasia. The topical application of zinc has shown to reduce sebum production and acne. Some people suffering from acne have been found to have zinc deficiencies in their skin, despite of the fact that they have normal levels within their bloodstream.
The effects of topical zinc on hair growth may be due to skin irritation actions. In the 1970's, a number of severe skin irritants, such as nitrobenzene derivatives, were investigated for hair growth properties. While they initially stimulated hair growth, they ultimately produced unacceptable scalp damage and irritation and could not be continued for use.

Zinc salts can inhibit the action of the immune system macrophages on the skin. Since the macrophages are key cell responsible for skin repair, excessive use of zinc salts on the skin could inhibit skin and hair follicle repair. Mulhern et al 1986 reported that excessive dietary zinc in mice reduced plasma copper and induced alopecia. Lansdown 1991 (Westminster Medical School, Department of Comparative Biology, London, UK) examined the dermal irritancy of six zinc compounds was examined in three animal models. In open patch tests involving five daily applications, zinc chloride (1% aqueous solution) was severely irritant in rabbit, guinea-pig and mouse tests, inducing epidermal hyperplasia and ulceration; aqueous zinc acetate (20%) was slightly less irritant. Zinc oxide (20% suspension dilute Tween 80), zinc sulphate (1% aqueous solution) and zinc pyrithione (20% suspension) were not overtly irritant, but induced a marginal epidermal hyperplasia and increased hair growth. Thus, hair growth effects observed with zinc may be secondary to dermal irritation. (Lansdown AB, Interspecies variations in response to topical application of selected zinc compounds, Food Chem Toxicol 1991 Jan; 29 (1): 57-64)

Like zinc, topical cortisone has been used to promote hair growth and is often reasonable effective in persons with inflammatory scalp conditions. But cortisone stops skin repair and, if used for an extended period, ultimately thins the skin, damages hair follicles, and causes hair loss.

 

[HairlossTalk]

Studies have found that ionic zinc can inhibit 5-alpha reductase (type I) but zinc has no effect on type II reductase.

Ah. How Saw Palmetto-esque, minus one!

Some studies have found that the combination of B6, zinc salts and azelaic acid, even at low concentrations, caused a 90% inhibition of 5-alpha reductase activity - but this is still not hair growth.

Amen brother. Shout this one from a mountaintop. Just because something has been shown to inhibit (THE WRONG TYPE! of) DHT does not mean it is a hair loss treatment! If people lived by this, snake oilers wouldn't make a penny.

The effects of topical zinc on hair growth may be due to skin irritation actions.

And if you're going to go that route, you might as well get some Nioxin because Niacin does the exact same thing. Unfortunately, the reason Nioxin is too little bang for the buck is because anything that grows hair due to ye ole' agitation technique has been shown to only grow mediocre amounts of it and said hairs do not stick around. Many things can agitate hair to grow, including a simple scalp massage. But this is what separates the men from the boys. Legit hair loss treatments need to work for a minimum of 1 year and then some, or they never make it past testing stage. Agitation-grown hairs rarely live out the year.

In the 1970's, a number of severe skin irritants, such as nitrobenzene derivatives, were investigated for hair growth properties. While they initially stimulated hair growth, they ultimately produced unacceptable scalp damage and irritation and could not be continued for use.

Good point. You're not just agitating follicles into growth, but the surrounding tissues as well.

Zinc salts can inhibit the action of the immune system macrophages on the skin. Since the macrophages are key cell responsible for skin repair, excessive use of zinc salts on the skin could inhibit skin and hair follicle repair. Mulhern et al 1986 reported that excessive dietary zinc in mice reduced plasma copper and induced alopecia.

Zinc is an extremely potent nutrient. Too much of it can cause all kinds of problems in your body, only very small amounts of it are recommended on a daily dose. In fact most places I have read suggest that daily food intakes are enough to max out the body's zinc allowance for the day. Megadosing it onto your head where it's absorbed may not be smart?

Thus, hair growth effects observed with zinc may be secondary to dermal irritation.

Interesting.

Like zinc, topical cortisone has been used to promote hair growth and is often reasonable effective in persons with inflammatory scalp conditions. But cortisone stops skin repair and, if used for an extended period, ultimately thins the skin, damages hair follicles, and causes hair loss.

Thanks for this post Moderator Cassin

HairLossTalk.com

 

[outgrowth]

No one in this forum use zix?

 

[HairlossTalk]

Did you read his post? We like to think through things here. We like to know why we use treatments. We like to look at the information behind things and understand them. We do this in order to determine if its worthwhile to even use in the first place. I hope you will use this method as well.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[outgrowth]

Yes, i read it.. zinc can help hair to grow, but longterm zinc can damage it. I didnt get a point with it...
Ok, what you say is nice about reading and thinking and stuff.. but, if you never try, how should you expect things? There are lots of people who used zix and are satisfied, and ppl who are not. I'll just try it. I dont think it will damage so much. Btw, i'll use zinc sulfate, and that text above said it had no problem at all..

 

[Petchsky]

Well, be sure to post back your results, opinions after a few months.

Got this on my hard drive which may help,

Homemade Hair Loss Treatment


DISCLAIMER!


I, the author, am not a doctor of medicine. The information is provided as is for your own information purposes, and you should only use it at your own risk! You should take this information to your doctor and have him examine it before beginning any treatment program. The information contained herein does not constitute medical advice. I have personally utilized this treatment regimen but there is no guarantee that it is safe! Furthermore, I have only utilized this treatment regimen for 4 years at the time of writing. I have absolutely no idea of the long term safety of this routine. Be advised that zinc is a metal and therefore toxic levels could theoretically be built up in the body. Please, consult with your doctor first regarding any treatment program!

HOW I MAKE MY HOMEMADE HAIR LOSS TREATMENT

Since I first started making and using my homemade hair loss treatment I have changed my opinion on how best to mix the stuff up. Some of you might have seen some of my older sites when we used to mix the formula with 2% minoxidil. Based on much trial and error we now believe it is significantly more effective if we mix the zinc and b-6 in distilled water instead of minoxidil. The regimen would be like this. First apply the zinc/B-6 formula, weight 5 minutes then apply whatever minoxidil you wish to use e.g. 2%, 5%, 12.5%. If your hair loss is frontal it will serve no practical benefit to apply minoxidil to this area. If this is the case we recommend that you only apply the formula. You do not necessarily have to utilize minoxidil (Rogaine) in conjunction with the formula.

Making the home made hair loss treatment is really "child's play". Here is a list of items you will need.

2 empty minoxidil containers with eyedropper. (2 oz each)

1 220 mg zinc sulfate capsule. (Each 220mg zinc sulfate capsule actually only contains 50mg of elemental zinc). Suppliers are listed below. Don't waste your time trying to buy it locally. You will have an extremely hard time finding it. I DO NOT make any money when you utilize the suppliers listed below so this is not a sales pitch.

6 20mg b-6 tablets. Suppliers are listed below. Don't waste your time trying to buy it locally. You will have an extremely hard time finding it. I DO NOT make any money when you utilize the suppliers listed below so this is not a sales pitch.

4 oz. of distilled water. (Not spring water but distilled water). You can purchase at your local supermarket. It is very cheap.

1 container that can hold approximately 6-12 oz and has a cap that will not leak when you shake it up.

What you want to do is mix your hair loss treatment in such a way that each 2 oz bottle contains 100-110mg of zinc sulfate and 60mg of B-6. To accomplish this all you need do is fill the 2 empty and clean minoxidil bottles with the distilled water and dump them into your larger container. Next take one zinc sulfate capsules (220mg) and gently pull it apart and dump it into the container. If your zinc sulfate comes in 50mg capsules these will work fine as well. Simply empty the 4 capsules into your large container. Next take the B-6 and crush the tablets between two spoons. You don't have to pulverize it. If all you succeed in doing is cracking it in half that will be fine. Now dump each of the cracked B-6 tablets into your large container as well. Close the container and shake well. Now put the large container in a safe place for 1-2 days. This will allow time for the maximum amount of the powders to dissolve.

Don't be concerned about making a perfectly dissolved solution. There is almost always some sediment left on the bottom. You can eliminate most of it by "pouring" it off. I don't bother doing this any more. The sediment is undetectable on your scalp anyway.

After you have let your solution sit for 1- 2 days simply shake it up and then pour the contents into the 2 minoxidil bottles. A little funnel may be helpful. Always shake the minoxidil bottle before using. This should be enough to last you at least a month. Unfortunately using a sprayer to apply to your scalp may not work, as it will tend to clog. Using the plastic eyedropper that comes with the minoxidil is usually the best way you can apply this solution. Simply apply to all bald and balding areas twice per day. Again, if you are using minoxidil apply the formula first, wait five minutes, then apply whatever minoxidil you are using.

Variation Of The Formula


There has been much excitement and claims of astounding results by people mixing the formula in a 25% lemon juice solution. Judging from testimonials it seems to have been an improvement. If you would like to give this a try utilize only 3 oz of distilled water and add 1 oz of lemon juice. I would recommend utilizing only natural lemon juice made from literally squeezing the lemons yourself.

This formulation is still in it's infancy so we are still relying on input from others. I myself have only been using it for a few weeks. I found out about this variation from a message board called hairlosshelp.com. Since the topical solution now contains some sugar (because of the lemon juice) it may be a good idea to store it in the refrigerator. Bacteria loves sugar. Storing it in the fridge is advisable because it will delay it's deterioration. You should also not make up more than a one month's supply at a time so that you are always using a freshly made batch.

There is an increased degree of risk involved in using the lemon juice version. There is some concern that the lemon juice causes an increase in absorption of the zinc which may eventually lead to an increase in hair fall out. Do your own research before proceeding and consult your physician first. At this time there is no one, to my knowledge, who has utilized this treatment for an extended period of time.

If you would like to read comments about this new variation or the regular formula you can read the message board by clicking on the link below. My "handle" on the forum is "joe_561". The formula has taken on a "slang" name and is often referred to as "Zix" or "Zixon".

hairlosshelp.com


Here is a thread where I've answered a lot of questions.

Here is some really good input from someone who has been using the lemon juice formulation. Reading this should answer any questions you may have. Remember both hair loss formulas are experimental. Click on the link below to read.

The Lemon Juice Guy!


Your daily hair fallout should start declining within 1-2 months. If it does not, the formula probably is not going to work for you. For that I truly apologize.

Hair regrowth is an extremely difficult thing to judge. You won't see bald areas filling in first. The hair you have will gradually get thicker. The last hairs to grow in, if ever, will be bald areas. The best way to judge whether a treatment is working is by literally counting the hairs in your comb and on your shoulders each time you comb your hair. I use to average 15-20 before starting on this treatment. Now I am averaging 1-2 hairs. This is only the hairs you are noticing. You're not seeing the hairs that go down the drain when you shower or fall off your head when you are walking, talking, sitting, etc., but it will give you some type of gauge to measure the "rate" of your hair fall out. When this rate decreases significantly your hair follicle's growth cycle is lengthening. This is the best evidence that the solution is working as well. By getting more follicles growing hair instead of "resting" your hair eventually starts to thicken. New growth in bald area starts with fine "peach fuzz". These hairs grow for a bit then fall out. Then the follicle goes into the resting stage and then starts to regrow a thicker hair which again falls out. This cycle continues each time growing a thicker and longer hair. It takes a long time but it's easier to deal with than when things are going the other way!

I have now been offering this information for more than 3 years. Most of the reports that have come in thus far are very promising. In my opinion, based upon e-mail input I judge the formula to be effective in about 65%-75% of the people devoted enough to use it twice a day for at least 3 months. Those who have combined the formula with HGH supplementation are experiencing significant hair regrowth with close to a 95% success rate.

Obtaining supplies for the Homemade Hair Loss Treatment

Zinc Sulfate
Zinc sulfate is very inexpensive to buy. For $6.00-$7.00 you can buy a 4 year supply. It can still be very hard to find. Below are some links where you can buy some. If you discover other sources please e-mail me and I will update the site accordingly. You can order online using your credit card by clicking on the link below. I have no financial relationship with these suppliers.

Click here to buy zinc sulfate online

Drugstore.com

Another Supplier (European)

SUPPLIERS OF THE "GOOD B-6"

There are basically two types of B-6. Pyridoxine and pyridoxal. You want to purchase pyridoxal also known as pyridoxal-5-phosphate. It can be hard to find. It is very unlikely you will be able to find this form of B-6 in any local vitamin store. Below are two sources. You can order on-line using your credit card. The first link offers the lower price, which is $9.95 for 100 tablets. I also have no financial relationship with these suppliers either.

Ecological Formulas
http:wwwthewayup.com

American Council on Collaborative Medicine
http://www.nutrimed.com

A Whole Bunch Of Sources

European Supplier

European Supplier

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/good-earth/ ... blets.html
HGH Supplement

The product I am currently recommending and also personally taking is known as "Super HGH" sold by MD Healthline. It fits all of the criteria outlined on the web site. It costs $69 for a one month supply. If you are willing to buy a three month supply the cost drops to around $57 a month. They also have a physician on staff and never give anyone a problem refunding their money if a purchaser is unsatisfied for any reason. Below is a direct link to their site.

You should also be aware that I now receive a small commission whenever anyone clicks through and orders the product.

To order "Super HGH" simply click on the link below. Remember the product I'm recommending is called "Super HGH" as they have other HGH products that I don't feel as strongly about.

MD Healthline


DISCLAIMER!


I, the author, am not a doctor of medicine. The information is provided as is for your own information purposes, and you should only use it at your own risk! You should take this information to your doctor and have him examine it before beginning any treatment program. The information contained herein does not constitute medical advice. I have personally utilized this treatment regimen but there is no guarantee that it is safe! Furthermore, I have only utilized this treatment regimen for 4 years at the time of writing. I have absolutely no idea of the long term safety of this routine. Be advised that zinc is a metal and therefore toxic levels could theoretically be built up in the body. Please, consult with your doctor first regarding any treatment program!

Supporting Medical Journal Abstracts


Back To First Page.

 

[losingitquickly]

Have any of you seen this study? It would make sense as to why I started losing my hair after increasing Zinc intake....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7271365

 

[outgrowth]

Well, zinc may rise DHT levels, but as the text said, it was oral. Zix is topical. There's a quite a difference. Besides, there are lots of studies with zinc and B6 topical about reducing dht levels.
I dont know what we can believe at. hehe

 

[losingitquickly]

I agree - hard to know what to believe.

I would think that it would have the same affect on DHT - systematically if taken orally, locally if applied topically.

 

[grinja the ninja]

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productrevi ... /index.htm

Crinagen includes ionic zinc, vitamin b6 and azelaic acid. The first two are definitive ingredients of zix.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productrevi ... /index.htm

Revivogen includes these three ingredients as well.

Anyway, if it is in commercially available products (advertised on this website) it can't be all that bad...although we can't be sure what their clinically proven doses are so its hard to replicate them.

BTW I use the pyridoxal, its bioavailable vitamin b6. And I make my azelaic solution separately, just to be sure.

 

[jimmystanley]

this is such a confusing discussion