Question To All Knowledgeable Members -- Hair Loss Genetics

Why do you think hair loss genes are so prevalent among European people, and not black people, or people from middle east ? Is that just random mutation that occurred spontaneously in our ancestors that lived in europe.

Why do white Caucasians have androgen sensitive hair follicles compared to other races as black or aborigines ? is it linked in some environmental factors, like less D vitamin production which is somehow linked to AR uppregulation ?

I can see black people have very few body hair on arms and even beard, does that mean black people (I can mention some examples of popular persons in politics, music, history, nelson mandela, obama, kanye west or jay-z - they all tend to have very thick hair) have less AR in body and scalp hair follicles, they certainly dont lack T and DHT

I think the only way to solve this puzzle is to find a pureblood 100% native american and examine their DNA.
Those fuckers have zero body and beard hair, and indestructible hair follicles.

Hair loss genes are very prevalent in the Middle East. I'd say Arabs and Israelis (who are either Caucasians or Arabd ethnically) are just as, if not more prone to male pattern baldness. Native Americans can recede to a 3A pattern but no worse. The genes exist in all other populations, the reason for the frequency would have been a high frequency of the shitty alleles in early populations, possibly due to a bottleneck which often happens when small groups move to a new location. Any bad genes they have will be far more prevalent in their descendants. Even Samoans and Pacific Islanders like the Rock have the male pattern baldness genes. In Japan it's very prevalent in over 50s, and amongst those with male pattern baldness there, it usually progresses to NW7 with bad donor.
A better question might be, why do Caucasians and Arabs go bald younger than other races. It's the early onset that distinguishes us, not the frequency.
Among white people, certain nationalities and ethnic groups tend to have a greater prevalence of male pattern baldness too. British and Irish people and Jews (I know it's s faith but there are certain ethnic traits too, possibly from Jews Eastern European or Arabic ancestors) tend to fare the worst I think.

Also I'd like to add that the mutation didn't occur in European early ancestors. Its present in all human races, monkeys and gorrillas even... It's quite possible that it originated in primates, our non human ancestors. And as they evolved into humans, they kept the shifty male pattern baldness genes due to no selection against and/or breeding before symptoms emerge. The reason why it likely isn't present in native Americans is likely a very small population bottleneck in the early founders, among whom there mustn't have been any carriers.

Gypsie people are more resistant to common baldness.
I think that people with natural high density and thicker hair is less prone to hairloss.
Till the moment, I can not see huge biological differences between scalp hair in women and men, then I can think that the lenght of scalp hair can be implicated in this issue.
BTW density and thickness of hair is genetically programed but not its lenght.

I think it's one of those weird nature signals we just can't comprehend from a scientific point of view that needs to prove anything in a laboratory..
Why does the adult male gorilla get a silverback? Why does the peacock need his beautiful feathers? Sure you can find the hormone changes that lead to them and document it from a histological point of view, but you still don't get to the actual "why". Is it a sign that organism has more testosterone, is more dominant, is more submissive, is more stressed, is more attractive, has a hormonal imbalance?
IMO alopecia is a sign of "something" about the person that has it, but we won't surely know what's about it since we can't just interrogate the genes responsible for it. We do know that it correlates with health issues, people can find them with a quick search on pubmed.
In the meanwhile I still find it ugly, and the jokes about bald people I heard and the comments on how "disgraceful" bald people look (made by fully-headed men and women) show that baldness is not a desired trait.

GoldenMane said:

Hair loss genes are very prevalent in the Middle East. I'd say Arabs and Israelis (who are either Caucasians or Arabd ethnically) are just as, if not more prone to male pattern baldness. Native Americans can recede to a 3A pattern but no worse.

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I agree that Androgenetic Alopecia is also prevalent in the Middle East. But young native Arabic people in their twenties or thirties do not suffer from receding hairline or diffuse hair loss till their 40s, unless they have some conection with our genetic pool due to colonization and mixed
marriages. Those who have Androgenetic Alopecia, have very hairy arms, thick facial hair, so they probably have very high DHT in hair follicles. Look at many popular arab people, shekiks , they all tend to have very hairy body and almost perfect hairline.

On the other hand you like many other from scandinavia, germany, england, scotland, have almost zero body hair -> that would mean you don't have increased DHT over your body or you might have very unsenstivie body hair follicles. I don't know what's true. Scientist should examine you to find out.

my guess is we Europeans tend to have very sensitive scalp hair to miniaturization via T and DHT. These are unlucky genes in our case. maybe those genes were helping our ancestors to mate and produce offspring due to social selection as sign of maturity. that's only reason why Androgenetic Alopecia benefited during evolution.


And yes, black people like Mandela, Morgan Freeman tend to have zero hair loss !! They certainly have very usensitive AR in skin and hair, they also tend to lack hairy chest or legs, which would mean they just lack AR in skin.

I'm getting hairier by the year, my arms and legs have definitely got hairier in the 3 years I've been on finasteride/dutasteride. Starting to get it in my shoulders too though chest remains fine/vellus hairs. Arabs and mid eastern fold most definitely do start balding in their 20s just as frequently as Northern Europeans. Of course AR receptor sensitivity is the culprit, no mystery there! Almost all men have DHT, it's sensitivity that counts, and Arabs/N Europeans are in the same shitty boat. Everyone who starts balding Young has sensitive AR receptors, regardless of race and all races have male pattern baldness, only frequency varies, and again, this may largely be due to racial population founders bottlenecks.

BTW said:

Why does the adult male gorilla get a silverback? Why does the peacock need his beautiful feathers? Sure you can find the hormone changes that lead to them and document it from a histological point of view, but you still don't get to the actual "why".

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We get the "why" though in these cases. Natural selection. Throughout time mutations led to these traits, these traits proved successful in survival, so they survived and passed them on to their offspring. With most of the traits you see in different species, you can analyze how that trait was beneficial to their survival and this is "why" it was passed on.

With Androgenetic Alopecia, no one really knows. MOST traits in animals are beneficial in one way or another, yet some just happened. They neither enhanced or inhibited the species ability to survive. male pattern baldness may be one of those. It just.. happened.

buckthorn said:

We get the "why" though in these cases. Natural selection. Throughout time mutations led to these traits, these traits proved successful in survival, so they survived and passed them on to their offspring. With most of the traits you see in different species, you can analyze how that trait was beneficial to their survival and this is "why" it was passed on.

With Androgenetic Alopecia, no one really knows. MOST traits in animals are beneficial in one way or another, yet some just happened. They neither enhanced or inhibited the species ability to survive. male pattern baldness may be one of those. It just.. happened.

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Natural selection works in two ways.

1: A mutation gives a survival advantage, those carrying the gene survive and breed at higher rates and the genes become more widespread.

2: A mutation is neutral. It doesn't hurt survival or reproduction. Or it's deleterious affects happen years after sexual maturity so that carriers can breed before symptoms show.

Androgenetic Alopecia is likely the latter, males can breed in teens and early 20s before it gets really bad. Or perhaps early humans and our non human ancestors didn't care if our partners found our bald heads attractive, lots of animals are a bit rapey. Early man and primates likely didn't care about consent. If they were stro g enough, they got what they want, and Androgenetic Alopecia doesn't affect strength.

Or maybe stone age women found baldness *gulp* attractive.

If so, the world surely has changed.

Before modern hair grooming techniques I imagine it could very well be an advantage to be balding, nothing for an enemy to grab onto and nothing to impede your line of sight, potential improved vitamin D absorption, as mentioned early balding could have been seen as a sign of maturity and sexual dimorphism (like premature greying in silver-backs).
All possible reasons for why balding *could* be an advantage to a hunter gatherer man.

GoldenMane said:

Of course AR receptor sensitivity is the culprit, no mystery there!

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No mystery? ? ? AR receptor sensitivity changing with the years? I have not a simple explanation for this, have you anyone?

BTW said:

Why does the adult male gorilla get a silverback?

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This question is better: why only certain adults male gorilla get a silverback?
BTW Our scalp hair is the most evoluted of all primates,

Is there any way to reduce the sensitivity of our hair ? Not to block androgens or use finasteride or dutasteride, but to reduce the number or ARs in scalp hair follicles ?

Ventures said:

Is there any way to reduce the sensitivity of our hair ? Not to block androgens or use finasteride or dutasteride, but to reduce the number or ARs in scalp hair follicles ?

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No if there was we would all be doing it assuming it was safe. The best you can do is something like RU or CB both experimental things from random underground distributors like kane. They compete with the AR fighting with T/DHT for the receptor so in a sense blocking it. So in another 3 or 4 years CB will attempt to fight androgens in that way.
The thing is blocking androgens with finasteride is still our only really legit way to fight androgens because we dont have a real legit FDA approved AR blocker or inhibitor which would be very useful. Neither method though will work perfectly you probably want both
So blocking/stopping androgens as we have learned is not a very easy thing to do

GoldenMane said:

Hair loss genes are very prevalent in the Middle East. I'd say Arabs and Israelis (who are either Caucasians or Arabd ethnically) are just as, if not more prone to male pattern baldness. Native Americans can recede to a 3A pattern but no worse. The genes exist in all other populations, the reason for the frequency would have been a high frequency of the shitty alleles in early populations, possibly due to a bottleneck which often happens when small groups move to a new location. Any bad genes they have will be far more prevalent in their descendants. Even Samoans and Pacific Islanders like the Rock have the male pattern baldness genes. In Japan it's very prevalent in over 50s, and amongst those with male pattern baldness there, it usually progresses to NW7 with bad donor.
A better question might be, why do Caucasians and Arabs go bald younger than other races. It's the early onset that distinguishes us, not the frequency.
Among white people, certain nationalities and ethnic groups tend to have a greater prevalence of male pattern baldness too. British and Irish people and Jews (I know it's s faith but there are certain ethnic traits too, possibly from Jews Eastern European or Arabic ancestors) tend to fare the worst I think.

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Somebody already mentioned it, but since Androgenetic Alopecia is hair follicles progressively getting thinner, the baseline thickness of your hair matters in how fast you go bald. It is known that typical Asians have fewer hair follicles but thicker hair than Europeans. This could explain why it takes longer for hair loss to show on them. Also, blond hair tends to be thinner than darker hair, and I do feel like men who are blond on average show signs of hair loss earlier than others.

Armando Jose said:

This question is better: why only certain adults male gorilla get a silverback?
BTW Our scalp hair is the most evoluted of all primates,

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Whenever you see animals with variable traits among species, it suggests that both evolved along side each other. Both had advantages to survival. Adult males of different species may have different traits, because natural selection allowed for this. In reference to the Silver Back, it would definitely seem advantageous for mating, but perhaps not for predators?? (if such an animal even has predators, aside from poachers). Therefor, both the "plain" genes and silver genes had some distinct advantage... idk, what do you think?

edit - just looked it up. It appears that ALL males within that species do indeed get the silver coloration on their back, it just comes at a certain age. Are you talking about "silverbacks" vs other species of gorillas?

Ventures said:

Why do you think hair loss genes are so prevalent among European people, and not black people, or people from middle east ? Is that just random mutation that occurred spontaneously in our ancestors that lived in europe.

Why do white Caucasians have androgen sensitive hair follicles compared to other races as black or aborigines ? is it linked in some environmental factors, like less D vitamin production which is somehow linked to AR uppregulation ?

I can see black people have very few body hair on arms and even beard, does that mean black people (I can mention some examples of popular persons in politics, music, history, nelson mandela, obama, kanye west or jay-z - they all tend to have very thick hair) have less AR in body and scalp hair follicles, they certainly dont lack T and DHT

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Do you have any statistics to back this up, or are you just speculating? I see people of all different races at different ages at differing levels of hairloss.

kj6723 said:

Do you have any statistics to back this up, or are you just speculating? I see people of all different races at different ages at differing levels of hairloss.

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Seconded.