Another Microneedling Study With Incredible Results

[Mandar kumthekar]

You are doing a false opposition here. DHT its the main upstream signal triggering a cascade of molecular events that leads to increased inflammation, decreased blow flow, etc. Its not an hypothesis, its proven to be the main mediator of MPHL by thousands of studies.

Skin disruption techniques in the end are "cell repopulation" therapies and overexpressing certain signaling patways during its process enhace its hair regeneration effect. We can say with microneedling we're trying to reset the skin conditions prior to the state were androgens damaged hair stem cells.

DHT increases inflammation but not wounds? I think puncturing skin will increases inflammation more than dht can.
If hairs of balding region are dht sensitive as thousands of studies had shown then why don't all hair on top of the head falls at once?in one solid installment? Like a chemotherapy does to hairs in cancer patients. ??Why don't all dht sensitive hair falls just after puberty? ???? Instead they fall in pattern consistent with skull bone growth.??
Hairfall is indication of persons overall genetic health.physically and mentally Active person rarely go bald ,so hair fall could have been an indicator or signal of possible male mate's health to women of reproductive age,back on African planes.

 

[Notreallyhere]

DHT increases inflammation but not wounds? I think puncturing skin will increases inflammation more than dht can.
If hairs of balding region are dht sensitive as thousands of studies had shown then why don't all hair on top of the head falls at once?in one solid installment? Like a chemotherapy does to hairs in cancer patients. ??Why don't all dht sensitive hair falls just after puberty? ???? Instead they fall in pattern consistent with skull bone growth.??
Hairfall is indication of persons overall genetic health.physically and mentally Active person rarely go bald ,so hair fall could have been an indicator or signal of possible male mate's health to women of reproductive age,back on African planes.

a Cavewoman female with no other knowledge than visuals would of interpreted donald trump as superior breeding partner than the rock ?

 

[benjt2]

You are doing a false opposition here. DHT its the main upstream signal triggering a cascade of molecular events that leads to increased inflammation, decreased blow flow, etc. Its not an hypothesis, its proven to be the main mediator of MPHL by thousands of studies.

DHT is summoned by the body as a response to inflammation. Whether it leads to fibrosis or not is determined by whether it then causes TGF-B to be summoned or not, which it seems to do mostly in chronic inflammation situations involving muscles. This is also supported by the fact that the baldness patterns only occurs above the galea muscle. Tension models involving the galea perfectly predict the balding progression (at least for men, for women it is a bit different).

In other words: There is good evidence that inflammation is actually upstream of DHT. There may additionally be a feedback loop where the additional accumulation of DHT leads to even more inflammation, but inflammation likely happens first.

do you think the skull of people on a trans regimen shrinks back?

Actually, it does to a certain (small) extent, yes.

And finasteride, does that also shrink your skull?

Indeed, unlike transgender hormone drugs, finasteride does not change your skull shape probably.

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

a Cavewoman female with no other knowledge than visuals would of interpreted donald trump as superior breeding partner than the rock ?

Yes. Donald have melania trump and rock doesn't.

 

[Mandar kumthekar]

Lol the skull bone growth. Itms because your receptor sensitivity changes over time, that’s why older people tend to grown even thicker beards. That’s my guess

And what changes that sensitivity of receptors??? Nothing has been implicated so far and it is 2019!!!
Beard thickens due to regular shaving practice not by dht sensitivity.

 

[JimmyB]

Don't see much of a difference, and they used the classic longer hair deception technique for the "after" pics. I don't care about hair count if it's not cosmetically noticeable.

 

[Armando Jose]

DHT increases inflammation but not wounds? I think puncturing skin will increases inflammation more than dht can.
If hairs of balding region are dht sensitive as thousands of studies had shown then why don't all hair on top of the head falls at once?in one solid installment? Like a chemotherapy does to hairs in cancer patients. ??Why don't all dht sensitive hair falls just after puberty? ???? Instead they fall in pattern consistent with skull bone growth.??
Hairfall is indication of persons overall genetic health.physically and mentally Active person rarely go bald ,so hair fall could have been an indicator or signal of possible male mate's health to women of reproductive age,back on African planes.

And what changes that sensitivity of receptors??? Nothing has been implicated so far and it is 2019!!!
Beard thickens due to regular shaving practice not by dht sensitivity.

Clap, clap
You have solid comments. I am with you, but not in the skull theory

 

[Kagaho]

DHT is summoned by the body as a response to inflammation.

In other words: There is good evidence that inflammation is actually upstream of DHT. There may additionally be a feedback loop where the additional accumulation of DHT leads to even more inflammation, but inflammation likely happens first.


Actually, it does to a certain (small) extent, yes.


Indeed, unlike transgender hormone drugs, finasteride does not change your skull shape probably.

My god, so much nonsense...

I dont even bother to discuss with charlatans anymore but i would do an exception here.

I want a citation to at least one study showing inflammation is upstream DHT. An androgenetic alopecia study, of course.

@Mandar kumthekar maybe you can help your friend with the task.

 

[BaldAndBalder]

I remember reading a study a while ago about wounding on mice and how hair density increase in that area, its safe to assume that the wounding process cause new follicles to grow rather then "fixing" the broken ones.
Why does this happen in some and not others is a mystery. men with norwood 6 will have harder time growing hair with this method then men with norwood 2.
Its clear that male pattern baldness is much more complex then just DHT attacking follicles.

 

[Notreallyhere]

a Cavewoman female with no other knowledge than visuals would of interpreted donald trump as superior breeding partner than the rock ?

Yes. Donald have melania trump and rock doesn't.

lol had to google the rock actually traded up since he went bald but yea shes no melania

 

[Kagaho]

And what changes that sensitivity of receptors???
Beard thickens due to regular shaving practice not by dht sensitivity.

DHT stimulates beard growth, its been known for ages. You really dont have a clue about the basics yet you want to dismiss the role of androgens the main culprit of Androgenetic Alopecia?

Also how do you explain diffuse thinning were even donor hair density is often compromised with your theory?

 

[Armando Jose]

I remember reading a study a while ago about wounding on mice and how hair density increase in that area, its safe to assume that the wounding process cause new follicles to grow rather then "fixing" the broken ones.
Why does this happen in some and not others is a mystery. men with norwood 6 will have harder time growing hair with this method then men with norwood 2.
Its clear that male pattern baldness is much more complex then just DHT attacking follicles.

IMHO Scalp hair biology is one of the most complex system in human being, but male pattern baldness is only a small part of it, yhen more easy to study, ...., the open key is the "Pattern"

 

[Kagaho]

Hairfall is indication of persons overall genetic health.physically and mentally Active person rarely go bald ,so hair fall could have been an indicator or signal of possible male mate's health to women of reproductive age,back on African planes.

Lol you should be banned for your own good. This is one of the most idiotic comments i ever read. @Armando Jose level of broscience

 

[benjt2]

My god, so much nonsense...

I dont even bother to discuss with charlatans anymore but i would do an exception here.

I want a citation to at least one study showing inflammation is upstream DHT. An androgenetic alopecia study, of course.

@Mandar kumthekar maybe you can help your friend with the task.

Usually I would provide sources.

But I would do an exception here.

You, Kagaho, are one of the least well-informed people on the whole forum, yet one of the most arrogant and aggressive at the same time. You will insult anyone who you disagree with instead of just asking for clarification, in a neutral and respectful manner. You are the stereotypical "keyboard hero".
If you had just asked for clarification without insult - no problem. But this is not the way you ever treat anyone else here, and I will not go along with this.

Have a good time feeling superior. Typical case of Dunning Kruger.

(I do agree though that Mandar kumthekar's statements are, for the most part, also extremely misinformed.)

 

[Kagaho]

Usually I would provide sources.

But I would do an exception here.

You, Kagaho, are one of the least well-informed people on the whole forum, yet one of the most arrogant and aggressive at the same time. You will insult anyone who you disagree with instead of just asking for clarification, in a neutral and respectful manner. You are the stereotypical "keyboard hero".
If you had just asked for clarification without insult - no problem. But this is not the way you ever treat anyone else here, and I will not go along with this.

Have a good time feeling superior. Typical case of Dunning Kruger.

(I do agree though that Mandar kumthekar's statements are, for the most part, also extremely misinformed.)

Do what you want pal, the skull expansion guys really dont generate on me the motivation for discussion.

But you know you dont have the evidence I asked.

 

[benjt2]

Do what you want pal, the skull expansion guys really dont generate on me the motivation for discussion.

Then, if they "don't generate the motivation for discussion" in you as you claimed, why do you engage in discussion?
Seems to me you try to feel superior. This is something shining through in a lot of posts.

But you know you dont have the evidence I asked.

I will cite from this paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411

[...] dihydrotestosterone increases in androgenic alopecia-prone tissues as part of this inflammatory response [...]

I know you will now come up with something that will explain why, after all, you are right and the paper is wrong.

Regardless of who is right or wrong here:
Maybe think about how you treat other human beings. Instead of judging prematurely, ask neutrally. Treat other people with respect and the way you would want to be treated. You draw a sad picture of yourself in the way you treat others' on these forums. (and, when attacking other people aggressively before having even tried to understand their point of view, you also make an a*s of yourself when shown wrong)

Your contradiction above - claiming you have "no motivation for discussion" but jumping at every opportunity where you can tell someone how they are wrong - is striking. Think about it.

Ah, and cut out the insults. It makes you look worse than the person you try to insult, and it's disrespectful as well.

 

[Kagaho]

Then, if they "don't generate the motivation for discussion" in you as you claimed, why do you engage in discussion?
Seems to me you try to feel superior. This is something shining through in a lot of posts.


I will cite from this paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987717310411


I know you will now come up with something that will explain why, after all, you are right and the paper is wrong.

Regardless of who is right or wrong here:
Maybe think about how you treat other human beings. Instead of judging prematurely, ask neutrally. Treat other people with respect and the way you would want to be treated. You draw a sad picture of yourself in the way you treat others' on these forums. (and, when attacking other people aggressively before having even tried to understand their point of view, you also make an a*s of yourself when shown wrong)

Your contradiction above - claiming you have "no motivation for discussion" but jumping at every opportunity where you can tell someone how they are wrong - is striking. Think about it.

Ah, and cut out the insults. It makes you look worse than the person you try to insult, and it's disrespectful as well.

@benjt

That paper is from the journal Medical Hypothesis. Its a joke you cite this as evidence.

I will read it later nonetheless.

In the meantime, i would like to ask: how do you armonise skull expansion and diffuse thinning with "safe zone" miniaturisation? Thats far from galea reach my man and its reported to be quite common for diffuse thinners to have miniaturised hair on donor areas aswell.

And also why explanted scalp hair follicles growth is suppresed in vitro when exposed to testosterone? The "chronic scalp tension" doesnt really fit here...

Waiting for your response man

 

[benjt2]

@benjt

That paper is from the journal Medical Hypothesis. Its a joke you cite this as evidence.

Even if it is published in hypotheses, you should be able to distinguish the parts of the paper that are actual hypothesis and the ones that aren't. Obviously, a hypothesis paper isn't hypothesis from beginning to end. It builds upon previously discovered knowledge. And DHT elevation being a downstream effect of the body's response to physical injury (and being a response in the inflammation process) is something well known. Google for it, you will immediately find dozens of papers on this. And seriously, given that you only attacked me before even engaging in a proper discussion I already did enough googling for you.

In the meantime, i would like to ask: how do you armonise skull expansion and diffuse thinning with "safe zone" miniaturisation? Thats far from galea reach my man and its reported to be quite common for diffuse thinners to have miniaturised hair on donor areas aswell.

If you read my post again, you will see I never actually defended the skull expansion theory. The only thing I did was point out that transgender transition drugs actually do change skull shape in a way that is shrinking.
Why does this matter? Because of facts that you will surely agree on: Perifollicular fibrosis (which squeezes follicles, cuts them off from blood supply and deprives them of their growth space) and fibrosis in general. While I don't know if the skull expansion theory is right (I don't support it, but I prefer to be open to new ideas), other forms of expansion do happen. After many years of Androgenetic Alopecia, the scalp tends to visibly swell (which, as you might recall, was the origin of the skull expansion theory in the first place). It might be skull expansion, but it might simply be extreme fibrosis. It might also be something else. The truth is: I don't know for sure and neither do you. Don't insult people based on something neither of you know for sure. This disease called Androgenetic Alopecia has not been figured out yet.
Now, the interesting thing is: As trans drugs actually do change the scalp in that they can shrink it a tiny bit, the perifollicular fibrosis' strain on the follicles is reduced. As DHT is now lacking from the scalp, no new fibrosis is created to fill up the thus created non-fibrotic space.
My conclusion: While I don't know if the skull expansion theory is true (I don't think it is true, but I'm open to be shown otherwise), there is the possibility that trans drugs cause regrowth by reducing the adverse effects of the fibrosis through changes to the skull.
Just to be clear: I don't know for sure if any of what I just said is actually true. If there was already an established truth on how Androgenetic Alopecia works, we wouldn't be here. I just believe there is merit in being open to these ideas and to discuss them without dismissing their supporters as idiots, charlatans, are whatever you called them so far.

And also why explanted scalp hair follicles growth is suppresed in vitro when exposed to testosterone? The "chronic scalp tension" doesnt really fit here...

How testosterone works in this case depends on (a) where the follicle was taken from exactly, and (b) with how much surrounding tissue it was transplanted, and (c) if it was transplanted alone or with other follicles. Behavior when exposed to T/DHT greatly varies depending on these three factors. There are a bunch of studies on this as well.


Lastly, how is it that keyboard heroes often have anime characters as their avatars? My hypothesis: Insecurity in real life and thus identification with fictional strong heroes. Characters that are strong, whereas the real people using these characters as their avatars on the Internet feel weak in the real world. Thus their need to feel strong in the virtual world as well, and to attack and insult people, and to hunt for opportunities to show how they are right/intellectually superior and how other people are wrong. Getting from the Internet what they cannot get in real life.
Think about it.


Edit: Something that supports skull (or scalp) shape playing a role in Androgenetic Alopecia is, by the way, the tension models (von mises they are called?) which perfectly predict Androgenetic Alopecia progression for men (with male skulls!). Pattern hairloss in women is mostly diffuse and has a different pattern - and their skull shape is different.
Coincidence? I think not. Skull shape might not be the reason, trigger, or cause for Androgenetic Alopecia, but it plays a role in its progression.

 

[Kagaho]

And DHT elevation being a downstream effect of the body's response to physical injury (and being a response in the inflammation process) is something well known.

But thats has nothing to do with Androgenetic Alopecia, that happens with physical injury. DHT levels arent really relevant in most cases, its about DHT sensitivity. You really know little about Androgenetic Alopecia.

Cant reply right now but almost all youre saying is laughable stupid. Will show you that step by step.

About the cheap psychology, lol.

 

[yayapapaya]

Stop spreading made up bs please. There are studies that tested wounding alone and got results. There are some individuals in this forum that experienced quite good results with wounding alone.

Can you even read? Even the best case scenarios from those studies can't achieve good regrowth, let alone thickness.