100% that Minoxidil was the cause of my puffy face, help pls

[The Gardener]

Minoxidil is used for nitric oxide/vasodilation which makes your hair more healthy and you can even regaine hair.

No, that is not what makes minoxidil regrow hair.

The current thinking is that it is minoxidil's impact on potassium channels in the follicle cells that cause the regrowth.

 

[Felk]

Freakin hell.

Thats 5 people who have complained about their skin going downhill after using minoxidil.

Is this a documented side effect? Dr P, who doesn't even use much minoxidil (only in his proxiphen) because he uses other things (peptides, NANO, SODases, etc) pretty much dismisses minoxidil side effects completely.

Here is his reply to my email about possible chest pains form the minoxidil in his proxiphen

However i have been having strange chest pains recently, and was wondering if the minoxidil in the proxiphen is to blame (as it is applied to a wet scalp, which minoxidil isnt recommended to when used alone, no?)


This recommmendation was made 20 years ago and is related to the possibility of minoxidil absorbtion causeing decreased blood pressure. However, nobody has reported this from topical use. The dose is just too small, even if you absorbed it completely.

Sometimes they are just the area of my chest where my heart is, experiencing mild, but sometimes stabbing pains.


Minoxidil does not do this even if taken by mouth. So it is not causing this. Chest pain is a non-specific symptoms, which may be caused by several different thisng, including an incipient haeart atttack. If this is really bothering you, you should see a local physician. "

Whereas Dr Lee, stated "Side Effects: Patients with any history of heart disease should not use formulas containing minoxidil. Also patients who have a known adverse reaction to minoxidil should avoid using topical minoxidil. Although rare, patients who are sensitive to minoxidil can experience a rapid heart rate, a drop in blood pressure and water
retention. As a result, they may experience headaches, dizziness, chest pain and/or edema of the ankles. If that happens, the patients should discontinue any formulas containing minoxidil. In our experience, these side effects have occurred in less than 0.1% of patients."

So am I right in thinking, if it's the minoxidil causing your puffy face, it should be causing edema of the ankles/other areas as well?

Anyway, you have more options to take. Firstly, see a doctor, it will put your mind at rest and point you in the right direction. Secondly, you are using minoxidil 5%, 5% again in proxiphen, and 15% a day. You could surely cut down on the minoxidil and see if that helped, if you were against stopping completely.

 

[The Gardener]

So am I right in thinking, if it's the minoxidil causing your puffy face, it should be causing edema of the ankles/other areas as well?

That's right. If one is truly suffering facial swelling as a result of the minoxidil, they should also be noticing typical edema-like swelling in the ankles, etc.

If not, this swelling might very well be psychosomatic, or perhaps caused by other factors such as age, weight gain, or degradations in skin "youthfulness" caused by the exact same hormonal factors that are causing one to lose one's hair.

Think about the time a minoxidil user spends in front of the mirror, applying the minoxidil, wiping off the drips, examining the progress of hair sprouts... I have no doubt that the average minoxidil user probably spends exponentially more time looking at their own faces close up in the mirror that your typical non-minoxidil user does. When doing this, facial skin imperfections once not noticed during the non-minoxidil days suddenly come under repeated close up observation on a daily basis during the process of minoxidil application.

 

[Guest]

Music23 wrote:
Minoxidil is used for nitric oxide/vasodilation which makes your hair more healthy and you can even regaine hair.


No, that is not what makes minoxidil regrow hair.

The current thinking is that it is minoxidil's impact on potassium channels in the follicle cells that cause the regrowth.

Effect of minoxidil sulfate and pinacidil on single potassium channel current in cultured human outer root sheath cells and dermal papilla cells.

Nakaya Y, Hamaoka H, Kato S, Arase S.

Department of Dermatology, Tokushima University, Japan.

Minoxidil sulfate and pinacidil are K channel openers and are considered to promote hair growth. However, there have been no studies on the single channel current of isolated cells from hair follicles. Therefore, we characterized the single K channel current of outer root sheath cells and dermal papilla cells and the effect of K channel openers on K currents by patch clamp. We also carried out 86Rb efflux studies to observe macroscopic K channel currents. In physiological saline, these two cells showed two types of K channels, large and small conductance Ca(2+)-activated K channels, both intact cell-attached and excised inside-out patches. In symmetrical 150 mM K solution, unitary conductances were 246 and 70 pS, respectively. Intracellular ATP (up to 5 mM) or glibenclamide (20 nM), a specific ATP-sensitive K channel blocker, did not block these channels. Minoxidil sulfate (5 micrograms/ml) or pinacidil (10 microM) did not open these two types of K channels or increase 86Rb efflux. These results suggest that minoxidil sulfate or pinacidil did not activate K channel current in hair follicles, and that the drug effect on hair growth might be mediated by other mechanisms such as increased blood flow.

Minoxidil is a vasodilator and originally was exclusively used as an oral drug (Loniten®) to treat high blood pressure. It was, however, discovered to have the interesting side effect of hair growth and reversing baldness, and in the 1980s, UpJohn Corporation produced a topical solution that contained 2% minoxidil to be used to treat baldness and hair loss, under the brand name Rogaine. It is unknown how the drug stimulates hair growth

 

[wangho75]

minoxidil caused swlling in the face and and ankles for me pretty badly as well. Waking up in the morning sometimes I just looked painfully horrible and my face was so 'minoxy'

 

[Felk]

Stax if your face gets swollen on minoxidil, stop using it!

Minoxidil is used for nitric oxide/vasodilation which makes your hair more healthy and you can even regaine hair. For this same thing use 2 grams of arginine in the morning and before going to bed on an emtpy stomach.

Arginine produces nitric oxide not just healthy for hair, but for cardiac function in general and also for your wood!

Also use grape seed extract. A vitamin B complex.

Stax I don't want to interfere with your regimen, but do you really think it is smart to use Dutasteride for hair? Use revivogen and topical spironolactone for this.

This way you can enjoy the benefits of having good dht with great vasodilaton.

If you are interested try this regimen:

-arginine 2 grams - in the morning and before going to bed on an empty stomach

-grape seed extract

-vitamin B complex

-revivogen in the morning

-topical spironolactone an hour before going to bed

If this will not maintain your hair, you can still go back to your old regimen.

Well Music23, you might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but you're certainly the biggest.

 

[Guest]

Well Music23, you might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but you're certainly the biggest.

Felk everybody can write something. If you feel something I have written is incorrect/wrong back it up with arguments instead of just writing some BS.

 

[stax]

okay, bottom line, yes minoxidil caused some minor water retention in the face, and abs,ect. Minor, but enough to bother me. I no this 100% based oin my tests.



So my main question is about a solution. Such as a low dose of a loop diuretic, or a natural product that actually works as good as the prescription ones. This is all im asking any suggestions,ect. Thanks.

 

[The Gardener]

Music23, you posted one study that indicates minoxidil's influence on the potassium channels is not the method in which minoxidil causes hair to regrow.

That's fine, nice point, and I would certainly take that study into account. All I had said is that minoxidil' influence on the potassium channels was one of the current topics of discussion as to how exactly minoxidil works to make hair regrow. If studies indicate this is not the method, then I would certainly take them at face value.

However, neither of your postings refuted my main point, which was the vasodilation properties of minoxidil are NOT what makes minoxidil regrow hair. In fact, the very last sentence in your posting refers to the vasodilation properties of minoxidil, but goes on to state that the exact mechanism of how minoxidil makes hair regrow remains yet unknown.

 

[still_trying]

WHy do you guys think it makes your face look 10 years more old? Due to the water retention? Or another mechanism of minoxidil?

Because if you look closely at the skin in the mirror it is blotchy and a little puffy, as if the skin was retaining a bunch of water. It's kind of like the puffiness you get after a day in the sun, but without the redness. The end result is an older looking type of skin than we had, say a year ago, when we started our treatment.

For all I know it could be the effects of finasteride as well. All I know is that the quality of my skin has aged 10 years in one year's time.

then that's a pretty good reason to give it up!

i believe we're all taking big risks with so much medication and fookin around with our hormones. The second i get sides i'm dropping off meds.

Having no hair is one thing - looking 60 when you're 40 isn't cool. We really have no idea of the long term effects on using these things - i hateto get to 60+ and realise all this shti i've taken has messed me up. I wanna enjoy my retirement with my grandkids around me.! maybe we're all thinking too short term?

 

[Aplunk1]

Well Music23, you might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but you're certainly the biggest.

Haha, I love you Felk.

 

[Guest]

No, that is not what makes minoxidil regrow hair.

The current thinking is that it is minoxidil's impact on potassium channels in the follicle cells that cause the regrowth.

Gardener here you make clear that it is not the vasodilation/nitric oxide which makes minoxidil grow hair. This means you KNOW what is causing the regrowth, while you at the same time admit science itself has not yet understood what is causing the regrowth.

At the end of the study I posted, we read:

These results suggest that minoxidil sulfate or pinacidil did not activate K channel current in hair follicles, and that the drug effect on hair growth might be mediated by other mechanisms such as increased blood flow.


I am not saying minoxidil is directly causing an increase in NO. I personally believe it is more that the increased NO is an indirect result of minoxidil.

 

[techprof]

stax,
I am not sure what to suggest. I won't quit minoxidil. Try to find other solutions.

Also, I have a request for you. As far as I know you have used a wide variety of topicals and in your own words you have been sucessful.
Can you update your profile at least in one of the sites and your regimen.
I am interested in knowing what are the products you have used, how long you used each of them, why did you drop any of them?
thanks
techprof

 

[Felk]

Also, I don't really have any faith in the quick drying minoxidil anymore. I didn't get any positive results after almost a year of use so I figure why should I gamble on it any further. I'd rather just use Rogaine and have the assurance that this stuff in its particular form has actually been tested and used extensively.

I really need help on the temples so I think I'm just going to be applying Rogaine in the morning and night and seeing what happens. I'm not too worried about the greasy look because I can style my hair over the thinning areas anyways.

Interestingly, it seems to me that a lot of the success stories are people that are using regular minoxidil (not the quick-drying stuff).

Hmmm i think i havent seen too many stories raving about lee's 5% either. However maybe its just a coincidence.

Anyway, how did you solve your puffy face problem stax?