23, excess hairfall since 3 years [NEED SERIOUS ADVISE]

[JaneyElizabeth]

I think there's some innacuracy with the interpretation of the "100 hairs falling per day being normal" statement.

We all have hair fall throughout the day, but most of it is not noticeable, as it's often very small, thin hairs and the times when it is thicker terminal hairs, it's much less than I'd say around 50 per day approximately.

However, when someone is seeing a lot of thicker/terminal hair fall that is noticeable, in the region of greater than approximately 30 hairs, I would start to say it's okay to be concerned.

Those are excellent points. We don't think of scalp vellus hairs been shed all of the time. Furthermore, the numbers of hairs coming out is largely irrelevant if they are replaced say with females, or if we have a working treatment for males. In these cases, hair in the brush needed to make way and apparently catagen lasts one to two weeks so we can't really brush ourselves bald unless in a mad shed and then it doesn't matter anyway again since that hair was about to go too. Longer hair sort of doubles and triples on itself when you clean the brush so that makes it look like more in count and malformed hairs we typically don't want unless that is all that we have say because of a partially failed transplant. The longer the hair, the more important brushing seems to be in terms of using that sebum to good purpose by coating the entire strand. Hair can therefore actually look shiner, less frizzy and more well protected when brushed.

 

[Micky_007]

I have been writing a lot about why it's virtually never Telogen Effluvium. So, in terms of being 100 percent sure, eliminate in your mind the possibility that what you see is Telogen Effluvium. One thing is that whenever I see pics of purported Telogen Effluvium, it's always in the crown and temples. Why would Telogen Effluvium occur only there? Scalp tension could be one reason but basically as far as I can see Telogen Effluvium does not present differently from male pattern baldness. I would love to see pics to the contrary but since females never seem to get a Telogen Effluvium diagnosis, I question if 99 percent of males with hair loss have anything except male pattern baldness.

This cuts out the clutter of going on biotin and vitamins and jogging and lifting weights and being "pure" cause none of that will bring back hair. It might lessen future hair loss so everyone should consider a healthier life style but it won't grow hair ever.

So I try to look at this from a Bayesian point of view where we calculate a prior probability and then put it into an equation to determine the post probability. So if 99 percent of people under 25 complaining about or seeking treatment for hair loss have male pattern baldness in actuality and not Telogen Effluvium, then essentially any waiting to see if it's just Telogen Effluvium is counter-productive unless finasteride does all of these bizarre alleged things.

My opinion is that most guys who go on blithely without using finasteride or who have these bizarre sides, deep down don't want to use it because it reduces the male hormone with the greatest binding ability so they invent via the subconscious reasons that they cannot use finasteride. Guys who say they immediately became dazed and confused or saw visions, I discount entirely.

And not towards OP but it's not your girlfriend, it's not your parents' divorce, it's not the D in chemistry, it's not the stress of first year in college cause women have all of these things too and they almost never lose their hair because of it. Guys need to wake up and assume that only male pattern baldness affects them. Until they do that, they are worthless and this is a spiel stolen from Tyler Durden who changed my life and could change all of yours:

No. Once again, the reason people who report side effects of Finasteride has nothing to do with them not wanting it to reduce the male hormone DHT.

Infact, most people only realize after they take Finasteride the hormonal and chemical effects of Finasteride, which is often times too late, and they already have side effects.

People who get Finasteride side effects are very real, and to the OP, I strongly advise you do your own research about Finasteride and it's side effects from people who aren't Pro-Finasteride as often the side effects are irreversible.

This is simply for your own safety.

 

[Micky_007]

Those are excellent points. We don't think of scalp vellus hairs been shed all of the time. Furthermore, the numbers of hairs coming out is largely irrelevant if they are replaced say with females, or if we have a working treatment for males. In these cases, hair in the brush needed to make way and apparently catagen lasts one to two weeks so we can't really brush ourselves bald unless in a mad shed and then it doesn't matter anyway again since that hair was about to go too. Longer hair sort of doubles and triples on itself when you clean the brush so that makes it look like more in count and malformed hairs we typically don't want unless that is all that we have say because of a partially failed transplant. The longer the hair, the more important brushing seems to be in terms of using that sebum to good purpose by coating the entire strand. Hair can therefore actually look shiner, less frizzy and more well protected when brushed.

Thanks, and regarding it "not being possible to brush yourself bald" I would say that it's not completely impossible.

Depending on one's level of Male Patterned Balding, their hair may become very thin, to which any vigorous movement of the hair might fairly easily cause it to fall off.

I've also had people DM me about different hair loss conditions where they try to refrain from rubbing their hair because it's so thin and would cause excess shedding/hairloss.

I personally don't even use a comb/hair brush as I've always felt hair brushing to be too forceful of a pulling movement on the hair. It's okay if one has very thick hair to use a hair comb/brush.

 

[Jeju]

Start zix and nizoral. Monitor your hair for 6 months. If that doesn’t help, then you can nuke your DHT with finasteride, if you really want.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

No. Once again, the reason people who report side effects of Finasteride has nothing to do with them not wanting it to reduce the male hormone DHT.

Infact, most people only realize after they take Finasteride the hormonal and chemical effects of Finasteride, which is often times too late, and they already have side effects.

People who get Finasteride side effects are very real, and to the OP, I strongly advise you do your own research about Finasteride and it's side effects from people who aren't Pro-Finasteride as often the side effects are irreversible.

This is simply for your own safety.

Well. We fundamentally disagree and we disagree in terms of how much we place importance on our hair. There's no right answer.

I said subconsciously. I don't think people are faking sides but it's common with placebos/nocebos. I am unaware of studies on people with permanent side effects. Furthermore, the anti-finasteride people can't describe how such purported sides are created by blocking DHT and increasing T. And even then, one person might have extremely high desire so they don't notice anything from finasteride.

I don't deny that curbing DHT is effect free. Clearly it's not but we can't even say whether T and DHT have separate purposes or how they are involved in male fixation related to sex. We know that if you dramatically cut T, that people largely lose their previous fantasies so maybe the fantasy part is ruined but it sure wasn't for me. I couldn't tell when I took them or didn't or took both or one. I felt and feel nothing and their use is not associated with hair growth for me ever, only something you can't see discretely which is maintenance.

You have no rules of thumb to advise people about how long to wait or what Telogen Effluvium means in such circumstances or anything. I have worked to establish axioms. So if there are no sides at all or not persistent sides when discontinued, only going on finasteride makes sense if someone wants a chance at never being bald. Waiting around only makes sense if there are permanent sides and if they are statistically significant and then, only if they are more negative than the extreme positive of having hair. How do you address the Bayesian angle that virtually no one ever presents with Telogen Effluvium that varies in terms of how it looks compared to male pattern baldness. What if someone has both at once? Waiting around is senseless. male pattern baldness rarely waits as it is progressive and it seems to often increase in speed of progression to the point where nothing will halt it. That's not where I want my sons to be ever and they are 17. People who listen to you, might go bald for no good reason.

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

Thanks, and regarding it "not being possible to brush yourself bald" I would say that it's not completely impossible.

Depending on one's level of Male Patterned Balding, their hair may become very thin, to which any vigorous movement of the hair might fairly easily cause it to fall off.

I've also had people DM me about different hair loss conditions where they try to refrain from rubbing their hair because it's so thin and would cause excess shedding/hairloss.

I personally don't even use a comb/hair brush as I've always felt hair brushing to be too forceful of a pulling movement on the hair. It's okay if one has very thick hair to use a hair comb/brush.

True and that's what I mean about sheds. I was there and clearly it came out a bit quicker when brushed but it itched so much that I was tugging on it all the time anyway. A deep shed is probably rare but as you know, I was a temporary NW7.

 

[Micky_007]

Well. We fundamentally disagree and we disagree in terms of how much we place importance on our hair. There's no right answer.

I said subconsciously. I don't think people are faking sides but it's common with placebos/nocebos. I am unaware of studies on people with permanent side effects. Furthermore, the anti-finasteride people can't describe how such purported sides are created by blocking DHT and increasing T. And even then, one person might have extremely high desire so they don't notice anything from finasteride.

I don't deny that curbing DHT is effect free. Clearly it's not but we can't even say whether T and DHT have separate purposes or how they are involved in male fixation related to sex. We know that if you dramatically cut T, that people largely lose their previous fantasies so maybe the fantasy part is ruined but it sure wasn't for me. I couldn't tell when I took them or didn't or took both or one. I felt and feel nothing and their use is not associated with hair growth for me ever, only something you can't see discretely which is maintenance.

You have no rules of thumb to advise people about how long to wait or what Telogen Effluvium means in such circumstances or anything. I have worked to establish axioms. So if there are no sides at all or not persistent sides when discontinued, only going on finasteride makes sense if someone wants a chance at never being bald. Waiting around only makes since if therre are permanent sides and if they are statistically significant and then, only if they are more negative than the extreme positive of having hair. How do you address the Bayesian angle that virtually no on ever presents with Telogen Effluvium that varies in terms of how it looks compared to male pattern baldness. What if someone has both at once? Waiting around is senseless. male pattern baldness rarely waits as it is progressive and it seems to often increase in speed of progression to the point where nothing will halt it. That's not where I want my sons to be ever and they are 17. People who listen to you, might go bald for no good reason.

I'm sure you've already seen multiple people in this forum post several links about the side effects and even including people who had permanent side effects.

We can list a whole thread thats fulled with pages and pages of links of evidence about Finasteride side effects if need be, but I'm sure you've seen some already. Not sure if you read all that don't agree with your opinions.

Also, I've never mentioned anything about what you spoke about Telogen Effluvium.

Regarding Finasteride, I've always said, if one doesn't get side effects on Finasteride, sure go ahead and use it, but if you do get sides which is very possible, stop and also that the person using it should know full well before using it what are the possible side effects

Often times we are lead to falsely believe that Finasteride is some savior which it isn't. Just because someone doesn't get sides in the lucky cases does not necessarily mean it won't make one's hairloss worse or that it won't do anything. We already know that Finasteride causes loads of sheds. Now imagine using Finasteride and ur doesn't actually improve or halt hairloss but just continuously causes far more frequent cycles of shedding. And even worse if the Finasteride does nothing/makes things worse AND they get side effects.

Often times there are people who get better and safer results with just microneedling or using Minoxidil + microneedling.

You falsely assume that me advising people not to jump onto Finasteride without doing their due diligence in research means that I think they should not do anything to stop their hair loss.

I always advise people to start microneedling and/or use Minoxidil + Microneedling

If the OP can do the above, while limiting stress, eating regularly and healthily, stay fit and take all the necessary vitamins for hair, while it will not stop your hairloss, it will help to make your hair grow healthier and live a little longer, and if you can wait until 2023 you can try out Kintors Pyrilutamide and Breezula which should hopefully be released which will do what Finasteride wishes it could do without the side effects (supposedly).

 

[JaneyElizabeth]

I'm sure you've already seen multiple people in this forum post several links about the side effects and even including people who had permanent side effects.

We can list a whole thread thats fulled with pages and pages of links of evidence about Finasteride side effects if need be, but I'm sure you've seen some already. Not sure if you read all that don't agree with your opinions.

Also, I've never mentioned anything about what you spoke about Telogen Effluvium.

Regarding Finasteride, I've always said, if one doesn't get side effects on Finasteride, sure go ahead and use it, but if you do get sides which is very possible, stop and also that the person using it should know full well before using it what are the possible side effects

Often times we are lead to falsely believe that Finasteride is some savior which it isn't. Just because someone doesn't get sides in the lucky cases does not necessarily mean it won't make one's hairloss worse or that it won't do anything. We already know that Finasteride causes loads of sheds. Now imagine using Finasteride and ur doesn't actually improve or halt hairloss but just continuously causes far more frequent cycles of shedding. And even worse if the Finasteride does nothing/makes things worse AND they get side effects.

Often times there are people who get better and safer results with just microneedling or using Minoxidil + microneedling.

You falsely assume that me advising people not to jump onto Finasteride without doing their due diligence in research means that I think they should not do anything to stop their hair loss.

I always advise people to start microneedling and/or use Minoxidil + Microneedling

If the OP can do the above, while limiting stress, eating regularly and healthily, stay fit and take all the necessary vitamins for hair, while it will not stop your hairloss, it will help to make your hair grow healthier and live a little longer, and if you can wait until 2023 you can try out Kintors Pyrilutamide and Breezula which should hopefully be released which will do what Finasteride wishes it could do without the side effects (supposedly).

That's all great as long as a person doesn't take anti-finasteride information as a justification for not seeking treatment at all. We also have the guys who are afraid of minoxidil. <shrugs shoulders> When I was a guy, I wasn't fearful of many things but I only have used winners so research is important. I am coming to believe in reverse effects for some on finasteride but it still comes down to how a person evaluates risk assuming perfect information about finasteride. The reason that I mention Telogen Effluvium is that is virtually always the either/or presented on the "Guess if I am going bald" threads. They ask and then if you say, yep, male pattern baldness, then they start saying well none of relatives are and my doctor says it's Telogen Effluvium so I usually withdraw at that point because it is passive aggressive similar to the "Guess if I pass" tranny guessing game. Everybody says non-sensical stuff like, "you go girl!; if it makes you happy; thrilled for you; there are all kinds of tran folks even with beards.

My thought is usually, please don't leave the house that way but that's only if the person wants to pass but otherwise you have to be out of the closet pretty much. We all want to see ourselves as more attractive and genetically better and some are in certain things but not others but male pattern baldness could be called "white man's burden".

Janey