30% Minoxidil cream

[Bryan]

Bryan, i've been out of the loop on the minoxidil updosing debate, but have been using a 15% concentration. Overall, has there been any evidence that a 15% concentration is more effective than the proven 5%?

I have a whole bunch of topical minoxidil studies, and I've never seen a higher concentration tested than just standard 5% Rogaine. I am skeptical that Dr. Lee's 15% is any better, and I am HIGHLY skeptical that a goofy 30% minoxidil cream suspension would be any better.

Bryan

 

[The Gardener]

Yeah, but MY amp goes to ELEVEN

 

[Bryan]

LOL!! Good one, Gardener!

That kind of reasoning is at the bottom of it, probably...

Bryan

 

[luke77]

Bryan, i've been out of the loop on the minoxidil updosing debate, but have been using a 15% concentration. Overall, has there been any evidence that a 15% concentration is more effective than the proven 5%?

I have a whole bunch of topical minoxidil studies, and I've never seen a higher concentration tested than just standard 5% Rogaine. I am skeptical that Dr. Lee's 15% is any better, and I am HIGHLY skeptical that a goofy 30% minoxidil cream suspension would be any better.

Bryan

If nothing higher than 5% has been tested, how would this prove that higher than 5% doesn't work? Have there been studies that show conclusively that the scalp is not able to absorb concentrations higher than 5%?

Thanks,
Luke

 

[Bryan]

If nothing higher than 5% has been tested, how would this prove that higher than 5% doesn't work?

It doesn't. But the obvious question is this: if there's a more effective way to apply topical minoxidil than just by the standard alcohol/propylene glycol vehicles, why hasn't Upjohn used it in all these years?? And that includes both the high-concentration suspensions in creams and lotions, and liposomal/nanosomal vehicles.

Have there been studies that show conclusively that the scalp is not able to absorb concentrations higher than 5%?

People need to stop playing the "Numbers Game" with topical minoxidil, which is the tacit assumption that the only important consideration is that concentration number itself, to the exclusion of virtually everything else. Suppose we had a 100% concentration: we just powder our heads with pure minoxidil crystals. Do you think THAT would be absorbed very well? I don't. I think it would sit there on our scalps almost completely un-absorbed. The reason we dissolve minoxidil into alcohol and propylene glycol is to help it PENETRATE into our scalps after application.

The maximum solubility of minoxidil in pure ethyl alcohol is about 2.9%, if I recall correctly. The maximum solubility in pure propylene glycol is about 7.5%, and I don't know what the solubility is in DMSO. However, it almost certainly isn't anywhere near 30%. Therefore, this 30% cream that's being discussed is just a SUSPENSION of minoxidil, not a solution. I have no reason at all to suppose that a suspension in a cream or gel is going to be absorbed as well as, say, a much smaller concentration dissolved in a traditional alcohol/PPG solution.

So don't get all excited the next time you see some amazingly high minoxidil potency product being advertised on some Internet site pushing hairloss products; ask yourself, what is the VEHICLE they're using with this crap?? Is it a true solution, or just a suspension? Is this stuff gonna get absorbed at all, or is it just going to sit on my scalp until I wash it off the next morning? Is this product just something to pander to the baser fears and instincts of guys who are losing their hair, by looking good (superficially) compared to ordinary Rogaine? :wink:

Bryan

 

[Bryan]

When I put it on it's pretty sticky and syrupy. In the morning, my hairline is still sticky until I wash it off. So I wonder it if is really getting absorbed.

EXACTLY. I rest my case.

 

[Aplunk1]

Many people report better response to the 15% instead of the 5%.

 

[Old Baldy]

If nothing higher than 5% has been tested, how would this prove that higher than 5% doesn't work?

It doesn't. But the obvious question is this: if there's a more effective way to apply topical minoxidil than just by the standard alcohol/propylene glycol vehicles, why hasn't Upjohn used it in all these years?? And that includes both the high-concentration suspensions in creams and lotions, and liposomal/nanosomal vehicles.

Have there been studies that show conclusively that the scalp is not able to absorb concentrations higher than 5%?

People need to stop playing the "Numbers Game" with topical minoxidil, which is the tacit assumption that the only important consideration is that concentration number itself, to the exclusion of virtually everything else. Suppose we had a 100% concentration: we just powder our heads with pure minoxidil crystals. Do you think THAT would be absorbed very well? I don't. I think it would sit there on our scalps almost completely un-absorbed. The reason we dissolve minoxidil into alcohol and propylene glycol is to help it PENETRATE into our scalps after application.

The maximum solubility of minoxidil in pure ethyl alcohol is about 2.9%, if I recall correctly. The maximum solubility in pure propylene glycol is about 7.5%, and I don't know what the solubility is in DMSO. However, it almost certainly isn't anywhere near 30%. Therefore, this 30% cream that's being discussed is just a SUSPENSION of minoxidil, not a solution. I have no reason at all to suppose that a suspension in a cream or gel is going to be absorbed as well as, say, a much smaller concentration dissolved in a traditional alcohol/PPG solution.

So don't get all excited the next time you see some amazingly high minoxidil potency product being advertised on some Internet site pushing hairloss products; ask yourself, what is the VEHICLE they're using with this crap?? Is it a true solution, or just a suspension? Is this stuff gonna get absorbed at all, or is it just going to sit on my scalp until I wash it off the next morning? Is this product just something to pander to the baser fears and instincts of guys who are losing their hair, by looking good (superficially) compared to ordinary Rogaine? :wink:

Bryan

Brian: I read this patent about a year ago and it indicates adding acids to minoxidil solutions increases their solubility.

http://www.freshpatents.com/Pharmaceuti ... escription

Here's a brief excerpt:

0010] Applicants have surprisingly discovered that by adjusting the acid concentration of the composition the solubility of the piperidinopyrimidine derivatives may be significantly increased without the necessity of utilising large amounts of propylene glycol or optionally by excluding propylene glycol altogether. Accordingly the total amount of active in the composition may be significantly increased. In a preferred form, the pharmaceutically active component is present in amounts of approximately 5 to 25% by weight, preferably approximately 5 to 15% by weight, more preferably approximately 7.5 to 12% by weight.

[0011] Preferably the piperidinopyrimidine derivative is minoxidil. Preferably the minoxidil is present in the form of a salt. The salt may include acetate, citrate, succinate, benzoate, hydrochloride, sulphate, phosphate or lactate. Preferably an acetate or lactate salt of minoxidil is used. The acetate or lactate salts may exhibit enhanced solubility and improve the ability to incorporate increased amounts of the active component in the composition.

[0012] In a preferred form the acid is added in an amount sufficient to provide an apparent pH to the composition of approximately 7.0 or less. The apparent pH of the composition is preferably between approximately 5.0 to 7.0, more preferably between 6.0 to 6.5. Any suitable acid may be used to adjust the pH, including mineral acids, such as hydrochloric acid, sulphuric acid, nitric acid and phosphoric acid, or organic acids such as citric acid, acetic acid, succinic acid, or maleic acid, or mixtures thereof. Acetic acid or lactic acid is preferred.

 

[Thinning hair]

When I put it on it's pretty sticky and syrupy. In the morning, my hairline is still sticky until I wash it off. So I wonder it if is really getting absorbed.

EXACTLY. I rest my case.

Bryan that again I can make a point that the Minoxidil being sticky, it can deliver Mino to the scalp over a longer time period. See regular topical drug that are using alcohol as vehicle are quickly adsorbed, used and disperse through out the scale. Therefore if the 15% stays on the scalp longer, the scalp can use the mino longer in a sense and give a greater effect.

 

[Thinning hair]

Then of course talk is cheap and will prove nothing unless we test it.(I'm not bashing u Bryan, just arguing for the sake of science.)

 

[Thinning hair]

Many people report better response to the 15% instead of the 5%.

That's an observation by ppl, unless there are testes that proves 15% activates the hair follicles which hasten their cycle.

 

[alfonso2501]

Topical minoxidil therapy appears to involve both LOCAL and SYSTEMIC components. If "Oz Brew" worked well for you, it may well be because of greater systemic absorption, which is irrelevent to the concentration percentage.
Bryan

Whatever the case may be, I’d still be willing to give it a try if I could trust the product to be a true 30% & not some horse $#iT scam. Has anyone else ever ordered from Community Drugs?

I order my Avodart from them. A bit pricey, but legitimate.

Luke, aplunk, thanks for the responses. I might me tempted to give 30% a try in the future.

 

[Bryan]

That's an observation by ppl, unless there are testes that proves 15% activates the hair follicles which hasten their cycle.

What? You can tell by looking at someone's BALLS whether or not the 15% is working for him?

(Sorry, I just couldn't resist the temptation! )

Bryan

 

[Aplunk1]

Haha, testes.

 

[brian200]

question

I’d be willing to give it a try but I don’t want to be the first. I can’t even find it on that website, then again it’s late & I want to go to bed. 30% minoxidil wow! How much does it cost? Can they hook you up with a medical consult over the phone or, via mail like the way Dr. Lee does it? Like I said, it sounds interesting but I don’t want to be the first to try.

Aplunk1, you’re right, it sounds like it’ll turn the scalp into hamburger with irritation. If anyone has ever had problems with scalp irritation this is not for them!

where can i find 30% minoxidil? i have been looking everywhere and i only find 15% but i want 30%. so please help me out....

 

[alfonso2501]

Doin’ the bump! I still can’t find where you guys get this 30% Rogaine cream. I searched all throughout that website & nothing. Also has anyone here used it yet? What are your results if any?

 

[beaner]

Re: 20% 30% minoxidil

Someone told me about asking about the 30% minoxidil on another forum site and wanted my inputs. I am new to this site, so I am just going to reply. I started the 30% minoxidil 2 years ago and been happy with the results with it. I heard some guys talking about it back & forth and found one guy using it once a day and several others using twice and back to one. I been using the 15% for many years and thought this stuff has no great use for me anymore. I’ve always hated taking the 15% solution as it stinks and you have to wash your hair every time after an hour from using it. I never liked the 15% Xandox or anything similar to this sticky solution, it was like I had to stick the around the house twice a day until i washed the formula out and after 2 years, i wasn't growing any new hair. I used everything from Xandrox, gel, oil and form but the cream was easier to use, much easier. I did not find it like toothpaste but like a soft hand cream, it rubs in and disappears. It is a real white cream. It took about 6 months to notice the 30% from the 15%; greater density by far but what I liked about it is I didn’t have to wash my hair anymore after using it. The 15% felt like motor oil every time I applied it on where the cream eliminated that completely. I could maybe wash the hair every other day as the cream does buildup but washes out easily. Dr Lee didn’t debunk the 30% either as rumored, I found him to be like this, if the 12.5% or 15% doesn’t work than go higher. I had nothing to be concerned with my health as the 30% is just fine and is not dangerous at all, there are guys using 15% 2 x and even 3 x a day or 5% 4 x a day and using more. I use 30% twice a day in small amounts about less than 1ml maybe or half that.

The draw back is, the 30% is not cheap but it last longer than a regular 15% 60ml bottle, I found myself refilling every 3 months. I don’t think anything soon is coming out in the market with something better as the old minoxidil formula’s I was taking are getting real old and not great to wait for results. I am someone to speak from what I have experienced, I like it. There is no turning back as I am happy with it; I threw my hat off which is a lot to say it works a lot better than the old 15%. My health concern is perfectly fine, so eliminate that factor out and decide for yourself with your doctor.

So how many years did you say you were on the 15% Xandrox? Where on earth did you actually get a 60ml bottle of 15%? Dr Lee certainly doesn't sell that size bottle. How long have you worked for Community Drug?

 

[CCS]

I dunno about the upped-dosages of minoxidil. They seem dangerous to me for the skin.

I agree, though if 100% PG does nothing bad, why not lots of minoxidil? PG is innert though. yeah, I stay away from high doses of anything.

 

[CCS]

Yeah, 2% minoxidil is just as good.

We live in a World these days, however, where "bigger is better".

5% minoxidil is 50% better than 2% minoxidil. But I suspect 5% minoxidil with 0.025% retin-A once a day is as good as 5% minoxidil 2x per day only because the retin-A is an anti-oxidant and also downregulates the androgen receptor. I don't think the extra absorption is the reason. I'm thinking of just applying my minoxdil 3 hours before my shower instead of after, for cosmet reasons and so it does not irritate my scalp.

 

[CCS]

and I don't know what the solubility is in DMSO. However, it almost certainly isn't anywhere near 30%. Therefore, this 30% cream that's being discussed is just a SUSPENSION of minoxidil, not a solution.

And I know from experience that high DMSO concentrations BURN really bad. PG and ethanol do not irritate me at all. Neither does Nizoral. But DMSO above 30% burns. Also, 5% DMSO will not mix octyl salicylate and PG. So I doubt you can get a high enough concentration of minoxidil even with that.

I think maybe some harsh chemicals can make a 10% minoxidil solution, but I'd not believe anything higher than that.