3038 Grafts Fue / Asmed - Koray Erdogan / 30th April

[davesmith420]

Mirin! This is going to turn out great!

 

[Pablo234]

Not at all concerned on the tech issue for a few reasons. The reality is that you don't need 6 years of med school to perform the very mechanical, labour intensive and precise action of extracting a graft, or implanting a graft. By splitting the surgery into an extraction team, an implantation team and the surgeon making incisions which is the most artistically and aesthetic aspect of the surgery, you're minimising fatigue, and allowing each member/group to maximise their skill at their specific part. It also allows the surgeon to perform multiple surgeries a day to maximise profit and economic competitiveness to other clinics while still maintaining a very high level of quality control. The techs at Lorenzo's and Erdogan's clinics have years of experience before they touch a patients head, and their clinics have a very low turnover. These techs are without a doubt more experienced than US surgeons who are only doing a few FUE surgeries a week.

The reality is that less stress, physical exertion from the surgeon and more money for the clinic to spend on maintaining high standards in their clinic with the most modern equipment (not the case for even high quality US surgeons, take a look at their clinics) is only a good thing. A surgeons most important jobs are to design overall clinic protocol (which significantly differ across clinics), the clinic itself, train staff, deal with business issues relating to producing the best possible results consistently with a high level of service, and then do consults, hairline design and incisions. If it streamlines the business, reduces fatigue and allows the clinic to treat more patients without dropping the quality of results, no one who has thought it through should criticise it. The only way for doctor only FUE clinics to deal with fatigue is to drastically lower the amount of grafts they can do per day, and drastically increase costs. This is the reality.

Also consider some of the others using this approach of tech extraction and implantation, with surgeon consultation, hairline design and incisions: Feriduni, Freitas, Lorenzo, Hasson+Wong, Rahal. 98% of US surgeon in the US are doing all aspects of the surgery (legally they have to) and 98% aren't at the level of Feriduni, Freitas, Lorenzo or Erdogan. Only Konior and Baubac are at that level, and neither do high graft numbers via FUE. They're also vastly more expensive than these other clinics. It's not just a Turkish surgeon cheaping out which is how people who haven't used their head assume, it's simply the best means of producing consistent megassession results at a price that isn't available only to those who are excessively rich, or only need a small number of grafts and have a low probability of further loss.

There are benefits to doctor only if you want a more tailored approach with low graft numbers, want the extra guarantee of quality, want to lower points of failure, but it's not an automatic guarantee of quality. Otherwise paying 200% more for a US surgeon doing the whole procedure than you would with Lorenzo or Erdogan is just stupid. In my case as someone approaching a NW5 it would have been nonsensical to a surgeon who is doing every aspect of the surgery, its simply not efficient or cost effective.

btw can you link the youtube guy out of interest?

Your responses always demonstrate a very well rounded approach and show you have extensive Knowledge .. you have clearly invested a lot of time and research into hair restoration surgery, which benefits a whole community here. Thankyou for your time - link to channel is below:

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCUeRnN70O2IdVE-TOdrZp0w

 

[michel sapin]

hairline is already looking perfect bro !
just some lack of density on the crown in ou pre op .
Did you mentionned the sides of fina with koray ? or dutasteride ?
I would like to talk with him about duta

 

[michel sapin]

may I ask you how did you get the money to pay the operation at such a young age ?
it was with the crypto ?

 

[JeanLucBB]

may I ask you how did you get the money to pay the operation at such a young age ?
it was with the crypto ?

Crypto helped but general savings as well. Nothing said about duta, although he wanted to be sure that I'd keep using finasteride and didn't have sides before he decided on the graft count. He seems to think they're slightly overblown for fina and many get scared off the drugs from scaremongering they read online.

Wanted a slight peak and less rounded hairline but the density last time was good, one side needing some more grafts also but mainly noticeable when wet like in the pre-ops. This is as aggressive as I had in my teen years in terms of design which I wanted because I still felt the minor Norwood 1.5 recession aged me when exposed.

 

[Chriswaun]

Before photos

Unfortunately no good dry pics of the hairline as they left the hair down for some reason.

Wow your hairline is deffo how I would really appreciate mine being like.

I’ve emailed ASMED but heard nothing back yet (filled the online consultation)

I cannot imagine having hair like yours and wanting to go for another hair transplant (glass is always greener on the other side comes to mind)

I have posted some photos of my current situation (it sucks). How many grafts do you think I would need?

It’s hreat to see someone wearing their hair down for a change. Usually all transplant patients have their hair up in a quiffe

 

[hanginginthewire]

@JeanLucBB if you were diffusing in a NW6 pattern, would you have proceeded in more or less the same way? Why or why not?

 

[JeanLucBB]

@JeanLucBB if you were diffusing in a NW6 pattern, would you have proceeded in more or less the same way? Why or why not?

Would have had to research my options to know exactly how I would have approached it, but I would likely have gone for a transplant in the frontal third and midscalp, used concealers for as long as I could in the back, and when I was beyond that opted for a hairpiece in the crown area. Possibility SMP also for the illusion of density.

So likely would have opted for the transplant route, but it ultimately would have depended on my donor capabilities still.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Wow your hairline is deffo how I would really appreciate mine being like.

I’ve emailed ASMED but heard nothing back yet (filled the online consultation)

I cannot imagine having hair like yours and wanting to go for another hair transplant (glass is always greener on the other side comes to mind)

I have posted some photos of my current situation (it sucks). How many grafts do you think I would need?

It’s hreat to see someone wearing their hair down for a change. Usually all transplant patients have their hair up in a quiffe

Check your junk mail. At least in my case they responded very quickly. Can't really tell how many grafts you'd need without seeing the crown or the temple areas, but minimum 4000 I suspect.

Keep in mind I'm 23,all my friends have juvenile hairlines and I would like to be able to pull younger girls (18-21) for the forseeable future, the first transplant avoided anyone likely thinking I had hairloss, but it still wasn't particularly youthful.

My hair is naturally quite wavy and curls when it gets long, so at a certain point I can't wear it up. Not that particularly want to anyway, I've worn it down my whole life.

 

[kaysan]

Looks great, if this grows out well you're definitely set for a long time. Probably life imo

I have a few questions if you don't mind answering. How many anesthesia shots did they do on your head? Was it by a anesthesiologist? Heard the shots are painful as hell and honestly been pondering about them a lot when thinking if I should get a hair transplant. Do they do any other tests before the hair transplant like a blood test, blood pressure etc?

Was your wavy hair a problem for extracting the grafts? I've heard wavy hair can be tricky and can have a higher transection rate since the surgeon will need to guess the way the hair characteristic is under the scalp.

Were you worried about placing hair where your native hair was already miniaturizing and were at the risk of possible shock loss after the hair transplant? Did your Doctor say anything about this? Did you have any shock loss after your 1st hair transplant?

Do you tell those around you or your workplace that you got a hair transplant? Or if you hide it what type of reason do you tell them about the buzzcut/redness?

Also, how does the payment work? Do you need all the cash on you when you travel or could you withdraw when after you land? Any discounts?

 

[JeanLucBB]

Looks great, if this grows out well you're definitely set for a long time. Probably life imo

Just wondering how many anesthesia shots did they do on your head? Was it by a anesthesiologist? Heard the shots are painful as hell and honestly been pondering about them a lot when thinking if I should get a hair transplant.

Do you tell those around you or your workplace that you got a hair transplant? Or what type of reason do you tell them about the buzzcut/redness?

Also, how does the payment work? Do you need all the cash on you when you travel or could you withdraw when after you land? Any discounts?

An anaesthetist provides a intravenous anesthetics when required, monitors heart rate etc but the technicians do the local shots. Not sure how many exactly but I felt like it was over 50. I think I'm quite resistant to the anaesthetics also, towards the end even after they gave a shot I could still feel pain in the area. Had to have one after the other, as well as through the intravenous. The worst ones are those in the donor around the ear which make me wince.

Some people have said it isn't painful, but to be honest I think they're just bullshitting. It's the kind of thing anyone can tolerate and it shouldn't motivate your decision, but it does hurt. Both procedures I've also had pain in the donor lasting about 10 days and needed basic painkillers afterwards for about a week. Worst at around 3-6 days. Again its nothing you or anyone else couldn't manage, but its uncomfortable.

Don't have a job at the moment, BUT I'll avoid hanging with any friends or seeing family etc for at least a month and a half or so. Last time I had the procedure in the middle of an internship and obviously had to tell them why I'd be away, so everyone knew. Wasn't a big deal. It is very noticeable for a month so there aren't any other options.

They allow 3000 Euros to be paid via bank transfer, the rest in cash, which most including myself carry on the plane. They did give 500 grafts for free, as Koray thought it was worthwhile despite in online consult them only suggesting 2500. Likely because I'd been before also.

 

[michel sapin]

all your friend have juvenile hairline at 23 ???
because many guys in college have receding hairline nowadays

 

[kaysan]

Thanks for the quick reply Jean. Added some questions in my above post in an edit I'm guessing you missed due to your quickness, any chance you could answer those?

Over 50 shots wow, that is more than I was expecting. Do all the shots hurt equally or is it easier to take after the first few (btw how long does each shot sting?) ? Even though I expect it's possible to stand the pain for them I'm sure it can be hard to take these pain-wise over multiple days. Did they give you any drugs to ease the pain of the shots?

Also surprised about the general anesthesia. Is this a common thing that can happen with hair transplants? Did something happen during the hair transplant that prompted them use GA or did you go under at the start of the procedure?

 

[JeanLucBB]

Thanks for the quick reply Jean. Added some questions in my above post in an edit I'm guessing you missed due to your quickness, any chance you could answer those?

Over 50 shots wow, that is more than I was expecting. Do all the shots hurt equally or is it easier to take after the first few (btw how long does each shot sting?) ? Even though I expect it's possible to stand the pain for them I'm sure it can be hard to take these pain-wise over multiple days. Did they give you any drugs to ease the pain of the shots?

Also surprised about the general anesthesia. Is this a common thing that can happen with hair transplants? Did something happen during the hair transplant that prompted them use GA or did you go under at the start of the procedure?

Actually my bad, it's not a general anaesthetic, not sure exactly what its but its through a intravenous thing in the arm they leave in throughout the procedure. They weren't doing it last time anyway, last time just the local shots in the scalp. It helped whatever it was.

Specific areas hurt much more, around the ears, lower on the head and the sides etc. Crown barely felt at all, and those in the frontal recipient not quite as bad. They only sting for the instant they are done. They have an anaesthetic cream on the scalp when they do the shots but it's still quite painful.

My surgery only over one day and it's not an issue in terms of ever feeling like you can't take it anymore, but for two days I think you'd be at that point by the very end.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Looks great, if this grows out well you're definitely set for a long time. Probably life imo

I have a few questions if you don't mind answering. How many anesthesia shots did they do on your head? Was it by a anesthesiologist? Heard the shots are painful as hell and honestly been pondering about them a lot when thinking if I should get a hair transplant. Do they do any other tests before the hair transplant like a blood test, blood pressure etc?

Was your wavy hair a problem for extracting the grafts? I've heard wavy hair can be tricky and can have a higher transection rate since the surgeon will need to guess the way the hair characteristic is under the scalp.

Were you worried about placing hair where your native hair was already miniaturizing and were at the risk of possible shock loss after the hair transplant? Did your Doctor say anything about this? Did you have any shock loss after your 1st hair transplant?

Do you tell those around you or your workplace that you got a hair transplant? Or if you hide it what type of reason do you tell them about the buzzcut/redness?

Also, how does the payment work? Do you need all the cash on you when you travel or could you withdraw when after you land? Any discounts?

"Was your wavy hair a problem for extracting the grafts? I've heard wavy hair can be tricky and can have a higher transection rate since the surgeon will need to guess the way the hair characteristic is under the scalp."

They said it was a slight issue during the first procedure which was done at about 1000 grafts per hour for extractions and resulted in it being slightly slower than normal according to Koray. This time likely because they were trying to be careful due to the previous scarring, bare spots etc it was about 700 grafts per hour, and at the parietal and temporal areas (around the sides) they had one person each side extracting to speed things up for the last hour.

"Were you worried about placing hair where your native hair was already miniaturizing and were at the risk of possible shock loss after the hair transplant? Did your Doctor say anything about this? Did you have any shock loss after your 1st hair transplant?"

No, I've virtually never seen drastic instances of permanent shock loss in the recipient, or even noticeable temporary shock loss. Coming from someone who has looked at thousands of cases, and I've heard Dr. Feller say similar before. Many mistake the thin look of a diffused buzzcut and how bad it looks during the first month while it grows out to get some coverage as shockloss. Really its just the lack of coverage that they've never seen because they've never had their hair that short.

It's not impossible, but 95% of the time I see shock loss it's in the donor, usually FUT cases around the scar. Even then its rarely permanent. Virtually the last thing on my mind. Koray didn't specifically say anything about this, although often he has cases where he transplants into areas with miniaturised hair and I haven't seen any where this was an issue.

 

[kj6723]

Plan and afters

Looks good bro. Like you'll basically have perfect hair when this one grows in. Post transplant blues should also be much less traumatic this time around since even without your 2nd transplant you have a fullhead/borderline fullhead of hair

 

[hanginginthewire]

@JeanLucBB Would you have considered FUT?

And what makes you think you’ll be okay only for ten years or so? I know hair loss is unpredictable, but couldn’t these 2 surgeries hold you in good stead basically for the remainder of your life?

 

[JeanLucBB]

@JeanLucBB Would you have considered FUT?

And what makes you think you’ll be okay only for ten years or so? I know hair loss is unpredictable, but couldn’t these 2 surgeries hold you in good stead basically for the remainder of your life?

I've talked to a few on the drug for over fifteen years and most agree their hair has got slightly worse over time. The studies I've seen also show a slight decrease towards baseline and below in the longer term (10 yearsish). It's plausible I won't need another in terms of losing coverage but the reality is I'm close to a NW5 with very little hair left in the midscalp and crown (apart from the new grafts there), it only looks ok when I grow it out a bit because of my wavy hair type giving an effective illusion of density. Wouldn't take a lot of further loss before issues arose.

The reality is also that any transplant into virgin scalp like at the front of my hairline is almost certain to have micro issues also. Very hard to get perfect density in a single pass over an area so I wouldn't rule another procedure out entirely. It's not the end of the world though.

No major issues with FUT, did actually consult HnW before the first procedure but they wanted me to be on medication which I wasn't at the time. A NW6 area is still going to be difficult to get great coverage and density in no matter whether you also opt for FUT to strip out first so I'd have still looked to the partial piece in the crown first in that situation. A few like Ben Affleck use one.

 

[JeanLucBB]

Wow, now I see why you went for it. That crown was going so it was best to nip it in the bud asap. It will be interesting to see how your donor area looks after 6k grafts FUE. Tends to be the upper limit even in those with good donor density. After that an FUT is best if needed otherwise you can look a little bald in places at the back.

Congrats mate. Think this will look really good. A nice crown swirl in the making Agree, tech job of implantation/extraction is robotic dummy stuff. With some training most can do it. The key, like you said, is really those incisions. That's where the surgeon's artistry comes into place - creative use of grafts, the angles, clever split of grafts e.t.c.

Definitely my thoughts on the crown. Dry and in indoor lighting it passed for a cowlick, aided by my wavy hair type which gives very effective coverage but the medium term security this gives is well worth it.

I'll get some ten day photos of the donor. Just looking in the mirror from a distance it doesn't look too bad at 8, no specific spots with obvious depletion either. I'm guessing another 1500 via FUE would be easily available and cover any medium term needs. If sh*t hit the fan in terms of further loses I'd have no issue with strip, probably Konior if I was in that position.

 

[GornMyson]

Looks great. Definitely going to have to go to Erdogan. I'm waiting till winter now to get my barnet sorted, my hair still looks somewhat humane, I don't think I could cope with a bald red head in the summer otherwise I'd be on it now, I need to be on the otherside now, babylon too rough for a babyfaced nw3.

Not too long now and you'll be back slinging dick like you never left with a warriors mentality knowing you beat this terrible curse. Happy for you geez