4 months on finasteride. Should I stop? Pics

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Kojakjr

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The simple answer is DHT isn’t only cause if male pattern baldness. I use Duasteride occasionally.. it has a really long half life. So my DHT levels are probably 90% reduced. Hair loss stabilized. Slight regrowth at best .. taking it orally & topically.. Now I am taking Spirolactone 100 mg..I have no side effects.. from either… more regrowth but no miracle yet..
 
losingbattle88

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Kojakjr said:
The simple answer is DHT isn’t only cause if male pattern baldness. I use Duasteride occasionally.. it has a really long half life. So my DHT levels are probably 90% reduced. Hair loss stabilized. Slight regrowth at best .. taking it orally & topically.. Now I am taking Spirolactone 100 mg..I have no side effects.. from either… more regrowth but no miracle yet..
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Ur right about that. I got super slow hair thinning for 13 years. But dutasteride orally and topically didnt do a damn thing and even accelerated the thinning. Same with finasteride. Hair is alot more stable since quitting those drugs. Dht isnt the cause for all men.
 
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Bw0434

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Mr Slap Head said:
Correct, the cause of male pattern baldness isn’t DHT. It’s genes. And what triggers the genes to activate are receptor sensitivity, which can be reduced. It can also be increased. Or blocked all together. DHT is merely the trigger, genes and receptor sensitivity load the gun.
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Interesting. Yea I was on finasteride for a total of 1 year with a month off in between. Was thinking of trying topical finasteride or dutasteride but maybe I should just stay off it for now. I've been on for maybe 2 weeks now and still shedding though so not sure what to do.
 
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Bw0434

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Mr Slap Head said:
Imo, oral minoxidil + RU is superior to the typical regimen of oral finasteride + topical min. First off, there is some research that suggested that RU is about as effective as finasteride, but without the side effects since RU is topical and has a short half life. And obviously oral minoxidil is superior to topical in terms of efficacy. For many, topical minoxidil is not effective because many people lack the enzyme in their scalp which converts minoxidil to its active form. Taking it orally even in very small doses is more efficient at converting it to its active form.

For hair, taking anti androgens systemically makes no sense (unless you go on a full blown shemale regimen, then it becomes more powerful, but with many side effects). But for hair growth, you only need to have anti androgenic effects at the site of the follicles. Systemically blocking androgens in your blood and other tissues does nothing in and of itself to improve the hair. All that matters are the androgenic factors in the hair follicle unit. And as I mentioned before, it's not just DHT that is a factor. First, the genes that produce 5 alpha reductase (which converts T to DHT) within the cell must be present for hair loss to occur. Again - this happens WITHIN the individual cells. Why would one want to inhibit 5AR in their other tissues wouldn't make much sense. But if it was just within the hair follicle, it would make sense. That's why it makes no sense to take the drug orally, as you will be inhibiting this conversion in your genitalia, which has undesirable effects such as the obvious sexual side effects, but it also increases estrogen and can affect things like body fat distribution, as well as other unwanted side effects. Keep in mind that pseudohermaphrodites - that is, men who are born with a mutation that causes them to lack 5AR and thus no DHT, those individuals do not develop sexually (micropenis) and also have gynocomastia.

Obviously, drugs like finasteride and dutasteride which inhibit the 5AR enzyme can improve hair for the reasons mentioned above. The next question you will ask is, well why not just take finasteride and dutasteride topically? In theory, this would make sense. But in practice, there is some nuance. First off, finasteride is a small molecule and will still go systemic to a significant degree when taken topically. It's still going to reduce systemic DHT by 25% up to as much as 70% (the same as oral) depending on the study and the dosage. I believe that this is still undesirable. Dutasteride is a larger molecule and very little goes systemic. I'll explain why it can still be problematic.

The other major effect of taking those drugs is that it can cause the receptors to upregulate - meaning that taking these drugs that reduce DHT (the most androgenic substance in the body, 3-10x more androgenic than testosterone) will cause the body to compensate. The cells start producing more androgen receptors, or you might say increasing androgen sensitivity, in order to attract more testosterone to the cells. If you understand basic homeostasis, this is not surprising. Blocking DHT causes the body to produce slightly more T in order to compensate. Remember though, that you cannot completely eliminate DHT, as it can be produced by adrenals in a "back door pathway". And, although these drugs can reduce DHT to almost nothing in the bloodstream (dutasteride especially), there still can remain about 50% of DHT in the scalp, and likely even more than that still remains within the hair follicle cells.

So what happens is, you have upregulated receptors, and therefore you are more sensitive to DHT. The question is if the tradeoff is worth it. Some individuals are going to upregulate like crazy, others maybe not so much, and this depends on your genes. This explains why there is so much variation in how people respond to these drugs. Sometimes this upregulation is not worth it, and other times it is. There are other factors too, such as estrogen and estrogen receptors and how your body handles that, as it influences hair growth too.

"True" antiandrogens like RU and other drugs such as bicalutamide do not work by blocking DHT. They work by blocking the androgen receptor all together. Obviously, if you take this systemically, it will cause unwanted side effects. But if you can block the receptors at hair follicle, this would be most ideal. Unlike finasteride, RU applied topically will not have much systemic absorption since it is a larger molecule. And if it does, it was specifically designed to metabolize quickly, so that the half life is only 1 hour in the bloodstream. The major problem that I see, however, is getting a pure consistent batch of RU. All antiandrogens cause upregulation, but taken topically will minimize this effect, and "true" antiandrogens block the receptors anyways.

That's why I say oral min + RU > oral finasteride + topical min
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Wow good info man! Appreciate you taking the time to post. I picked up some RU but haven't used it yet. My main concern is I have a 1 year old at home. Im sure it dries quickly but wouldn't it be possibly dangerous putting that on my scalp and exposing her. The side effects I see are cardiovascular related so just seems like a big risk for a little hair. Wanted to hear your thoughts on it though. You pretty much convinced me finasteride and dutasteride are a no go. I've been off finasteride for 2 weeks now and feel awesome already. Still shedding though so I have to do something about possibly trying to block the dht in the scalp. Any other suggestions you have I'd love to hear them. Thanks again man!
 
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Bw0434

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Mr Slap Head said:
Why not just apply it in the evening some time before bed then wash it out first thing in the morning.
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True. I guess still worried about laying on the pillow with it to sleep. Possible side effects for me as well? I have history of svt and high BP. Taking meds for it but am also a firefighter so don't want any possible damage to my heart. Was reading that it can possibly block the receptors around the heart? Not sure how true it is but on Reddit read a few guys saying they got heart palpitations, chest pain, shortness of breath and other things. Also it just confuses me why they dropped funding for it? Seems like if it was safe it'd be a very profitable thing. The wife and I are also going to trying for our second kid soon so idk about possible birth defects? Are there any other substitutes you think of or is it basically ru or bust?
 
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Bw0434

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Mr Slap Head said:
There’s no real evidence for those claims. I wouldn’t really worry about it. Try it once daily and see how it goes. How much do you need to apply? One area or entire scalp?

Problem with RU is the shelf life, that’s why it was dropped. And no one is dying from this or suffering severe effects. It has a short half life, so if you experience sides you can just drop it. And it’s only going to temporarily block some receptors on your scalp, it’s not going to block them all. I wouldn’t be concerned one bit about birth defects. finasteride is a different story.

Only other substitute would be something like fluridil (weak and not very efficacious in my experience) or topical bicalutamide (very similar to RU).
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Thanks man. Do you have kids? I just feel like if there's any possibility of something transferring to her that can harm her it's not worth it.

I'll look into topical bicalutamide. Where do you buy that at?
 
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Bw0434

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Mr Slap Head said:
Not yet. But again I wouldn’t be concerned at all. Car oil would be more dangerous lol. Or finasteride ofc

You have to buy the bica pills and mix it with ethanol. But honestly I think RU is safer because it has a much shorter half life. Bica has an insane half life
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I'll look into a bit more. Appreciate the help. If I was single and by myself I'd try it so quick haha. But now especially with no long term studies doesn't seem worth it. Looks like for now it'd prob be regenapure shampoo, nizoral, and minoxidil and watch my hair go bye bye haha
 
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Kojakjr

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I use Duasteride occasionally orally & topically so I have very low scalp DHT..
But it isn’t the answer to male pattern baldness. I have tried RU,
 
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Kojakjr

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I use Duasteride occasionally orally & topically so I have very low scalp DHT..
But it isn’t the answer to male pattern baldness. I have tried RU & pyrilutamide, latisse & they aren’t either.. although all are better than nothing. I am trying Spirolactone 100 mg..
Of course minoxidil..
So I should have the ideal system to grow & regrow hair. I have some results, but not what I want…
So the “hair theorist” I’ve become suggests that these compounds may work in a mouse & a test tube but on a damaged human scalp…not so much..
To a doctor my scalp & every other males looks perfectly normal.. but once my hair was flowing & growing & now not so much..
I noticed a correlation between minoxidil & Spirolactone & high blood pressure..
It seems it is potassium channels. Mix & spironolactone help open up potassium channels.
Ok what would happen if I put potassium solution in my scalp instead of say magnesium oil.. Btw I researched magnesium & bought lots of products & hair tested myself & have very high magnesium levels, but that’s not the answer. But topical potassium is for the most part blocked by the stratum corneum, the very top of the skin’s epidermis, collection of dead cells, but microneedling penetrates & allows absorption. So perhaps male pattern baldness results from a deregulation & imbalance in the potassium channels feeding the cells & hair follicles..building up over time w other electrolytes forming a barrier under the scalp..Another hypothesis..
 
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Bw0434

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Mr Slap Head said:
I’d recommend oral min but you have heart issues. Well, maybe your hair will stabilize and you can get a transplant
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Hey if I didn't have success with finasteride would you say ru would prob be the same? Or is it different ?
 
infamousrodi

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Bw0434 said:
You have kids in the house? Any side effects/results from the ru?
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Absolutely nothing man. Maybe chest tightness but it is likely all in my head. Fina on the other hand done fucked me up, even .025% at half a ml gave me sides. The only caveat is topical min and the ru do make your hair all stiff and gross looking, more then topical finasteride did, so washing it out every morning is a must.
 
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Bw0434

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infamousrodi said:
Absolutely nothing man. Maybe chest tightness but it is likely all in my head. Fina on the other hand done fucked me up, even .025% at half a ml gave me sides. The only caveat is topical min and the ru do make your hair all stiff and gross looking, more then topical finasteride did, so washing it out every morning is a must.
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Thanks man any results yet?
 
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