A Review of male pattern baldness Research.

[Galeaoman]

What?

Who's on first ...What's on second...

What is this inverse relationship?

Opening potassium channels causes scalp hair to grow. Opening calcium channels allows sweating...

Is it part of an inverse relation with scalp hair loss and increased scalp sweating being mediated by androgens?

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/genetic-mutation-renders-one-family-unable-sweat

In Pakistan, there lives a family of five with a unique – and tragic – condition. Several of their children cannot sweat.
...
For the members of the Pakistan family, their calcium channels never open. The researchers further demonstrated this defect by creating a series of genetically engineered mice without any IP3R2 production. Sure enough the rodents had reduced sweating.

 

[S Foote.]

I think the point here is the mechanism of this relationship has to be explained, according to the scientific rule of parsimony ( the most simple way possible). According to this principle, the most likely answer is one action that explains both the changes in hair growth and sweating rate.

In the case of hair growth we know it is because of changes in the size of the follicles, but in Cabanacs study there was no physical change at all in the sweat glands. Sweat glands have no pumping ability, they simply bleed tissue fluid. Therefore the only realistic explaination for the changes in sweating rate, is a change in the local tissue fluid pressures.

As i argue in my article the common factor in changes in anagen follicle size, is a change in external tissue fluid pressures. The only "one action" link in this hair growth/sweating change, is a change in the local tissue fluid pressure. The same increase in tissue fluid pressures that miniaturise scalp follicles in male pattern baldness, also increase the local sweating capacity.

 

[anonimoes]

But what is next? How can we simply make sure or test if this theory is right or not? Is that not the next step we should be talking about?

 

[Galeaoman]

Therefore the only realistic explaination for the changes in sweating rate, is a change in the local tissue fluid pressures.

This possibly warrants further research. The sweat gland has its own blood supply and it makes sweat from the blood plasma.
http://biology-igcse.weebly.com/homeostasis1.html

The hypothalamus coordinates temperature control. Not sure how the edema of the tissues contributes to greater sweating capacity though. Edema in the extremities could be a sign of chronic high blood pressure.

As i argue in my article the common factor in changes in anagen follicle size, is a change in external tissue fluid pressures. The only "one action" link in this hair growth/sweating change, is a change in the local tissue fluid pressure. The same increase in tissue fluid pressures that miniaturise scalp follicles in male pattern baldness, also increase the local sweating capacity.

Maybe you are correct about edema in the tissues contributing to hair loss. My feet and lower legs are completely bare of hair and it is more than just traction alopecia. My socks leave indentions in my legs and sometimes my feet swell up a little. Every winter the hair on my hands and fingers becomes fine like vellus hair but in the summer it always grows back into robust hairs.

There is a strong correlation with high blood pressure and male pattern balding but correlation is not causation

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/health/research/08real.html

THE FACTS Hypertension has been linked to heart disease, diabetes and early mortality. But hair loss?

Scientists are not exactly sure why, but a number of studies have suggested a relationship between blood pressure and men’s baldness, particularly the early-onset kind.

In a study published in 2007, for example, researchers looked at 250 men ages 35 to 65. After controlling for age, high cholesterol, smoking and other variables, they found that hypertension was “strongly associated” with male pattern baldness: those with a blood pressure reading above 120 over 80 had twice the risk of the others.

 

[H]

It doesn't work like this at the individual level. It works at the genetic/race/age/demographic level.

It doesn't hit children - no facial hair.
It doesn't hit women - no facial hair.
It doesn't hit warm-weather races - no bundled-up clothing.
It doesn't hit Native American Eskimos - no facial hair.

It hits the living sh*t out of Caucasian adult men. Big facial hair is common in the race + mainly cold weather ancestry.

Alright keep going what we're you saying?

 

[coolio]

I will repeat what I already said - I'm talking about the demographic-wide level. It's not a hard/fast rule for every individual.

Posting up a picture of a 5ft tall African man does not invalidate the idea that Africans are a tall race on average.

 

[H]

I will repeat what I already said - I'm talking about the demographic-wide level. It's not a hard/fast rule for every individual.

Posting up a picture of a 5ft tall African man does not invalidate the idea that Africans are a tall race on average.

I was going more along the lines of he lives in mostly hot weather. I have no idea how tall he is lol

 

[S Foote.]

This possibly warrants further research. The sweat gland has its own blood supply and it makes sweat from the blood plasma.
http://biology-igcse.weebly.com/homeostasis1.html

The hypothalamus coordinates temperature control. Not sure how the edema of the tissues contributes to greater sweating capacity though. Edema in the extremities could be a sign of chronic high blood pressure.




Maybe you are correct about edema in the tissues contributing to hair loss. My feet and lower legs are completely bare of hair and it is more than just traction alopecia. My socks leave indentions in my legs and sometimes my feet swell up a little. Every winter the hair on my hands and fingers becomes fine like vellus hair but in the summer it always grows back into robust hairs.

There is a strong correlation with high blood pressure and male pattern balding but correlation is not causation

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/health/research/08real.html

I suggest the maths here tell the story.
Average blood volume in humans is around 5 liters. Blood plasma accounts for 55% of this, so we have around 2.6 liters of blood plasma.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_plasma

If sweat came entirely from blood plasma, heavy sweating would kill us in less than an hour, unless we drank water constantly.
http://www.sweathelp.org/about-hyperhidrosis/physiology-of-normal-sweating.html

Quote:
"The secretory portion of eccrine glands produce an ultrafiltrate that is then processed by cells lining the duct portion, where reabsorption of sodium occurred, leading to hypotonic sweat and conserving electrolytes. An acclimatized person can produce up to several liters of sweat per hour and ten liters per day.[48,57]"

The largest quantity of sweat must come from the local stores of tissue fluid, and so sweating rates must reflect local tissue fluid pressures.

You are correct, correlation is not causation. But this is further support for this increased external pressure/reduced hair growth link.

 

[S Foote.]

But what is next? How can we simply make sure or test if this theory is right or not? Is that not the next step we should be talking about?

To prove this first it has to be proven that DHT significantly increases lymphatic drainage in-vivo. The problem here is that this would not suit any of the current hair loss lines of research, or other current research in general physiology. I am trying to encourage this testing, and I am sending the letter pasted below to people who could help here.

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I am trying to generate support within the scientific community, to promote the testing of a novel question in Human physiology. This testing could identify a significant sex hormone driven difference in gender physiology, that has not been previously considered in disease processes.

This hormone related factor fits very well with the known gender bias in some serious diseases, and could shed an important new light upon this bias. The necessary testing could be easily done by those in the position to do so, but the evidence here is also critical of some scientists, and this seems to cause a problem. This is the story so far.

I am an English systems engineer, with over forty years experience of complex mechanical/hydraulic systems. I have an interest in the evolution of physiology at the systems level. There are many people with expertise outside of what may be classed as "science", who may have cause to ask valid questions about scientific issues. If professional science is as robust as it claims to be, it should be willing to openly address such issues. However this is not my experience so far.

This particular issue involves a clear contradiction in some studies about tissue growth . Mainstream physiology claims there are basic spatial growth controls that restrict all normal tissue growth in-vivo. So any valid studies about tissue growth in-vivo, must take account of these spatial controls. There is however one current area of tissue growth study, that clearly fails to do this.

Once spatial controls are considered in the growth of this particular tissue and the existing data, there are wider implications. These include the testable question referred to.

Many may think this tissue of little importance, as it just involves regular hair follicle enlargement. But the important thing here, is what this connection tells us about changes in the surrounding dermal tissue. My article on the subject, and the details of the proposed testing are here.
https://www.academia.edu/17570665/A...nt_Hair_Research_and_an_Overlooked_Connection.

For some time i have been trying to get a response from scientists in the field, and general physiology on this issue. I have been asking if there is any evidence that the normal spatial growth controls do not apply to hair follicles? Perhaps because of my outsider status and this is critical of some scientists, i just get a consistent no comment. This is the response from the Physiological Society quote. "I have discussed with colleagues and we agree that this is not a subject matter that we should directly comment on".

There is no doubt that the wider implications of this overlooked dermal connection, go against the interests of a number of current lines of research in physiology. But in my view if scientists are not prepared to offer any evidence against my arguments here, they should support the testing of the important question this raises.
I would welcome any support i can get to promote this testing.

Best Wishes.
Stephen Foote.

 

[Galeaoman]

I suggest the maths here tell the story.
Average blood volume in humans is around 5 liters. Blood plasma accounts for 55% of this, so we have around 2.6 liters of blood plasma.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_plasma

If sweat came entirely from blood plasma, heavy sweating would kill us in less than an hour, unless we drank water constantly.

Your math is good...

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat#How_sweat_is_made

When the sweat gland is stimulated, the cells secrete a fluid (primary secretion) that is similar to plasma -- that is, it is mostly water and it has high concentrations of sodium and chloride and a low concentration of potassium -- but without the proteins and fatty acids that are normally found in plasma. The source of this fluid is the spaces between the cells (interstitial spaces), which get the fluid from the blood vessels (capillaries) in the dermis.

"Miniaturized Hairs Maintain Contact with the Arrector Pili Muscle in Alopecia Areata but not in Androgenetic Alopecia." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3500053/

Do hair follicles communicate with the surrounding tissues and do the surrounding tissues influence the hair growth and miniaturization cycles? Do the averages of interstitial pressure gradients contribute to a cascade of diminishing growth cycles?

http://www.livescience.com/17353-baldness-treatments-mimic-animals-winter-coats.html

"To deal with the hair growth, you not only try to help the stem cell, but you can improve the 'soil,' like — You put a tulip bulb in a nicer soil, you will grow a nicer hair," Chuong said.

 

[S Foote.]

Your math is good...

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweat#How_sweat_is_made



"Miniaturized Hairs Maintain Contact with the Arrector Pili Muscle in Alopecia Areata but not in Androgenetic Alopecia." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3500053/

Do hair follicles communicate with the surrounding tissues and do the surrounding tissues influence the hair growth and miniaturization cycles? Do the averages of interstitial pressure gradients contribute to a cascade of diminishing growth cycles?

http://www.livescience.com/17353-baldness-treatments-mimic-animals-winter-coats.html

Thanks for the interesting link.

This quote is from a very detailed report upon sweat gland physiology.

http://physiologyonline.physiology.org/content/22/3/212

"In the case of the sweat and salivary glands, salt was predicted to be selectively absorbed from the duct lumen in excess of water to form a final fluid that was hypotonic to the primary secretion and, of course, the extracellular fluid from which it originated."

In my opinion the hair cycle and follicle structure evolved to adjust hair growth in line with external pressure changes. These changes are the common factor in most cases of changes in hair growth as I argue in my article.

The basic claim here is not mine, it is accepted basic physiology. Current hair loss research clearly fails to take account of a basic growth control that mainstream physiology claims must be involved. This explains the ongoing failure of all the attempts to grow new follicles in the Human bald scalp. This situation will not change until this factor is taken into account.

 

[NewUser]

This situation will not change until this factor is taken into account.

By what I've read, medical science is just beginning to understand the lymphatic system. You have experience with fluid mechanics, S. Foote?

 

[S Foote.]

By what I've read, medical science is just beginning to understand the lymphatic system. You have experience with fluid mechanics, S. Foote?

I am experienced in the fluid dynamics involved in some complex mechanical systems. What i am proposing is a repeat of a lymphatic efficiency study, that has already found some significant gender differences in lymphatic efficiency.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9327386
Quote: " Unexpectedly, three of the four parameters were significantly lower in women compared to men"
If i am correct, DHT will be largely responsible for this measured gender difference. We have the ability to adjust DHT levels in both men and woman. For example if some women are treated on the forearms with topical DHT cream for a period, this testing should see a move towards the male results. The opposite should happen in men treated with a 5ARi.
.

 

[Armando Jose]

Mr Foote, did you read this paper?

The influence of tissue fluid on hair growth.


Author(s) : BUTCHER, E. O.; GROKOEST, A. W.

Author Affiliation : Biol. Lab., Hamilton Coll., Clinton, N. Y.

Journal article : Growth 1941 Vol.5 pp.175-181

Abstract : It was found that the fluid content of the skin of normal rats decreased before the quiescent phase of the hair cycle began and increased prior to the time of hair growth. Underfeeding of rats did not affect the tissue fluid content of the skin and there was little increase of skin fluid after adrenalectomy. It is concluded that tissue fluid content is of importance for hair growth but that other factors are more important.

BR

 

[S Foote.]

Mr Foote, did you read this paper?

The influence of tissue fluid on hair growth.


Author(s) : BUTCHER, E. O.; GROKOEST, A. W.

Author Affiliation : Biol. Lab., Hamilton Coll., Clinton, N. Y.

Journal article : Growth 1941 Vol.5 pp.175-181

Abstract : It was found that the fluid content of the skin of normal rats decreased before the quiescent phase of the hair cycle began and increased prior to the time of hair growth. Underfeeding of rats did not affect the tissue fluid content of the skin and there was little increase of skin fluid after adrenalectomy. It is concluded that tissue fluid content is of importance for hair growth but that other factors are more important.

BR

Cant find any link to the full text Armando.

 

[Armando Jose]

https://www.cabdirect.org/cabdirect/abstract/19411402376

I can't get the full study, sorry

 

[Armando Jose]

Butcher, Earl 0.; Grokoest, A. W., 1941: The influence of tissue fluid on hair growth. Growth 5(2): 175-182
Desiccating the skins of well-fed animals showed that the tissue fluid decreased prior to the resting phase of the cycle and increased before the hair follicle became active. Thus hair growth was influenced by the amt. of tissue fluid. The fluid content of the skins of underfed animals, however, became as great as that of well-fed rats producing hair yet the hair in the undernourished animal did not grow. The fluid content of the skins of underfed and well-fed rats increased very little after adrenalectomy. The hair grew sooner after adrenalectomy in underfed animals (high fluid content) than it did in well-fed rats with low fluid content. These detns. show that tissue fluid is conducive to hair growth but that other factors are more necessary for hair growth.


https://eurekamag.com/research/013/569/013569184.php

 

[Balding curse]

The NBA isn't Africa, Africans are not tall. I don't know how common Androgenetic Alopecia is in Africa, but it's common in African-American men. Maybe not as much as in White men, I don't know, but I don't see your hypothesis going anywhere.

I doubt this man is pure African, notice his features nose, hair, lips, he looks mixed African or black asian which is also mixed African but is not living in Africa. and Africans are tall, not all of them, but the most, there is androgentic alopica, but not wide as other races , You will see receding hair line but high norwood is very rare.

 

[S Foote.]

Butcher, Earl 0.; Grokoest, A. W., 1941: The influence of tissue fluid on hair growth. Growth 5(2): 175-182
Desiccating the skins of well-fed animals showed that the tissue fluid decreased prior to the resting phase of the cycle and increased before the hair follicle became active. Thus hair growth was influenced by the amt. of tissue fluid. The fluid content of the skins of underfed animals, however, became as great as that of well-fed rats producing hair yet the hair in the undernourished animal did not grow. The fluid content of the skins of underfed and well-fed rats increased very little after adrenalectomy. The hair grew sooner after adrenalectomy in underfed animals (high fluid content) than it did in well-fed rats with low fluid content. These detns. show that tissue fluid is conducive to hair growth but that other factors are more necessary for hair growth.


https://eurekamag.com/research/013/569/013569184.php

Thanks Armando.
I think it is really too vague . By how much from the norm did tissue fluid levels change? This could just be the normal variations due to the changes in follicle blood supply, related to the hair cycle.

 

[Balding curse]

quick Google search tells me that the average height in Nigeria is 5'4“. In Netherlands it is 6'. In China it is 5'6". No one would call the Chinese tall, so how are Africans tall when they are even shorter?

I don't know about Nigeria, but I have been to many different countries in Africa,I have seen many tall people that chinese would look midget to them, there is short people but most of them are tall.