A Very Interesting New Follica Patent: Needling Device And Drug Applicator

[kiwi666]

Who cares if needling works with minoxidil if you cant handle minoxidil side effects. Remember, not all can handle the bad effects of minoxidil on skin and the cardiovascular system. So this new treatment may be useless for the non minoxidil users population.

There are a handful of responders here doing it without minoxidil. I’m doing weekly derminating at 2mm with no topicals.

So I care if it works without.

 

[ToLGuy]

You say you have to keep going for the results, you chastise about it, but you've only been doing this for a month and a half.

So what? Nobody should draw conclusions on single cases. Instead, it should be done on larger samples. I base my conclusions in 1) published studies in which tests are performed with multiple subjects, and 2) Multiple anecdotal accounts of long term needles. If you say that for making an inference about the efficacy of something, the main requisite is trying it myself, then you don´t know a damn thing about statistics and the scientific method. Even if it turns out that microneedling didnt work for me, it DOES NOT mean it doesnt work and that the studies (and the success stories of some members here) are not geniune. Again, one more flawed argument from your side.

There are some users who've got good results, others whose results are extremely dubious. Most get none at all or a meager, next-to-worthless result.

Again, that's just not how this works.

The most successful, and one of the only studies on this, did once-a-week rolling and assessed the results at 3 months.

THe most succesful and one of the only studies on this? You seem to be talking about the Indian study, and to make such an ignorant claim like this, it seems it is the only study you have read. Dude, for god's sake, plase have a well informed background on this issue before posting your opinion.
READ, READ, READ

-This is the study of Yu et al. published this year in June: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ced.13551
They reported results at 5 months. Also, there is statistical significance in hair count and hair thickness in the side of the head in which microneedling is also being applied. If your shitty claim stating that only a small minority of users respong to needling, then we shouldn't expect the numbers reported in this study, and we wouldnt also expect a p-value smaller than 0.05.

-This is the study of Sanjic et al. published in 2017 http://www.indianjournals.com/ijor.aspx?target=ijor:ijced&volume=3&issue=2&article=006
It is a shitty study compared to others, because there are no differential experimental treatments. Everyone is applied finas, minoxidil and microneedling every 15 days. I just put this here just to tell you that hair growth assesments were done at 6 months. Again, your 3 months bullshit is refuted.

-This is the study of Bao et al. published in 2017. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14764172.2017.1376094
Now THIS is the king of all studies. This is the one you should be reading the most before opening your mouth. THis tested the efficacy of needling alone, minoxidil alone, and the combo of both. Statistical significance was found between the 3 treatments. Needling alone was found to be slightly better than minoxidil alone. Again, if your dumb claims were true, we shouldn't expect the numbers we are seeing in those trials, and of course there wouldnt be statistical significance. Assessment was done at almost 6 moths.

So please, stop babbling about the three months bullshit and only referencing the Indian study again, and again and again.

If this method of DIY dermaroll + minoxidil is working, it will start working from the first or second session.

The facts are clear on this: If you've not seen results after 3 - 5 months, then it is not working for you.

This is just your empty speculation that is not supported by any kind of data. First you said it was 3 months, then you are extending it to 5. Ok, let´s assume it's 5. At least that number is closer to the studies that I just posted. Still, you just don´t know what happens to MOST people who needle beyong 5 months, because MOST of them do not needle anymore, everyone quitted. To draw such a conclusion you should ask those who has been doing it for many more months. We have at most 5 people on these forums who has been doing them. One of them even said that regrowth keeps kicking in even after a year, EVEN when he was a late responder. At the time, the only one who supports your claim is a dude who has been needling for 7 months and that hasnt reported any improvement yet. However, to generalize this outcome you need more guys going thru this, and at the very moment, it is clearly not the case. So, to summarize, a bunch of people quitting before 3 months is by no means a good dataset to support your ideas, and you have no data to claim that 3-5 months is the magic number to assess whether the treatment will or will not work.
Even with minoxidil and finasteride (the best treatments we have so far) the results at 3 months are poor predictors of the long term outcomes, and the scientific literature has shown this before.

Other useful bits of info for you:

-No, microneedling IS NOT only about folicle neogenesis. It improves the thickness of existing hair too. Check the study of Bao et al. (2017) that I just posted above.

-Microneedling also improves microcirculation (induces angiogenesis). So even if you get small vellus hairs at first, the gradually improving circulation around those small hairs should theoretically keep making those bigger in the long term.

-There are a lot of things we still don´t know about needling. We still lack long term studies so we do not know if those gains are maintained, or when regrowth reaches a plateau. The only long term data we have so far is from a few anecdotal accounts. Again, most of them do not support your claims.

I suppose there is a chance you will conveniently ignore this response, as you did with the other thread.

I apologize for my recurrent english mistakes. Not a native speaker.

 

[Kagaho]

Post your pics.

Dude, you sound a lot like finasteride haters some years ago, asking for pictures to every user they came across. The pics are there, the studies are there... You are trying to hard to ignore the facts.

I dont have baseline pics of my case but im enjoying Somebody's type of results now and guess what, i never was a super responder to anything and didnt do well on minoxidil when i used it in conjuction with finasteride, some years ago.

There are plenty of pictures showing this is working for many users, i dont get why its so hard for you to accept it.

.

 

[kiwi666]

Dude, you sound a lot like finasteride haters some years ago, asking for pictures to every user they came across. The pics are there, the studies are there... You are trying to hard to ignore the facts.

I dont have baseline pics of my case but im enjoying Somebody's type of results now and guess what, i never was a super responder to anything and didnt do well on minoxidil when i used it in conjuction with finasteride, some years ago.

There are plenty of pictures showing this is working for many users, i dont get why its so hard for you to accept it.

.

I want to not post pics just to spite him

Of course I’m a man child and immature at the best of times.

That said the worst type of person here in these communities is the person that attacks our hope.

Faking wankers. We’re better off without em.

 

[MinervaCGI]

Dude, you sound a lot like finasteride haters some years ago, asking for pictures to every user they came across. The pics are there, the studies are there... You are trying to hard to ignore the facts.

I dont have baseline pics of my case but im enjoying Somebody's type of results now and guess what, i never was a super responder to anything and didnt do well on minoxidil when i used it in conjuction with finasteride, some years ago.

There are plenty of pictures showing this is working for many users, i dont get why its so hard for you to accept it.

.

Using somebody's method or wounding?

 

[Kagaho]

Using somebody's method or wounding?

Weekly sessions, mild to moderate wounding. Apply minoxidil right after

Closer to the indian study I think.

 

[That Guy]

Dude, you sound a lot like finasteride haters some years ago, asking for pictures to every user they came across. The pics are there, the studies are there... You are trying to hard to ignore the facts.

I dont have baseline pics of my case but im enjoying Somebody's type of results now and guess what, i never was a super responder to anything and didnt do well on minoxidil when i used it in conjuction with finasteride, some years ago.

There are plenty of pictures showing this is working for many users, i dont get why its so hard for you to accept it.

.

You now have somebody level results but have no pictures of your baseline anywhere? Yeah, sounds legit.

Also, much like most people flipping their sh*t on me here, your reading comprehension is pretty poor.

I have not denied the science of wounding or that some people have seen great results dermarolling.

BUT, and I'll put in bold text so nobody misses it: The justifications people are giving when it doesn't work are bullshit and cope. Period.

This is literally like if minoxidil didn't work for someone after like a year or something and telling them "you just had to stick with it longer because bro-science!" No. It's a fact that it doesn't always work. Just like it's a fact that dermarolling doesn't always work. Deal with it.

 

[MinervaCGI]

Weekly sessions, mild to moderate wounding. Apply minoxidil right after

Closer to the indian study I think.

Do you think applying minoxidil right after has accelerated results?

How much minoxidil do you apply?

 

[kiwi666]

You now have somebody level results but have no pictures of your baseline anywhere? Yeah, sounds legit.

Also, much like most people flipping their sh*t on me here, your reading comprehension is pretty poor.

I have not denied the science of wounding or that some people have seen great results dermarolling.

BUT, and I'll put in bold text so nobody misses it: The justifications people are giving when it doesn't work are bullshit and cope. Period.

This is literally like if minoxidil didn't work for someone after like a year or something and telling them "you just had to stick with it longer because bro-science!" No. It's a fact that it doesn't always work. Just like it's a fact that dermarolling doesn't always work. Deal with it.

Sure but if all you’re saying is that dermarolling doesn’t work for everyone why are you trying so hard to proove a point - why don’t you just say it and move on.

Also what justifications are people giving and where?

This thread isn’t even a week old and the other thread has been going since Oct 11.

Not even a full hair cycle!

So surely at worst some people have too high expectations and are freaking out and speculating reasons why. But who cares. If they are actually following the procedures they will hopefully see results in due course anyway. Or they won’t and we’ll never know why. Maybe they didn’t bleed enough. Maybe they didn’t evenly spread the wounding. Maybe they are on other hormone drugs countering the effects or smoke too much and have a sh*t diet. So many factors.

We’ll never know.

 

[hairloss_user]

This is literally like if minoxidil didn't work for someone after like a year or something and telling them "you just had to stick with it longer because bro-science!" No. It's a fact that it doesn't always work. Just like it's a fact that dermarolling doesn't always work. Deal with it.

You didn't even give needling a year, so how does that comparison make sense? Idiot.

 

[Hate da Bt]

You didn't even give needling a year, so how does that comparison make sense? Idiot.

He is, but what's the point of calling him out?
Is an idiot capable of realising he's an idiot?
No!
Just ignore him.

 

[That Guy]

Sure but if all you’re saying is that dermarolling doesn’t work for everyone why are you trying so hard to proove a point - why don’t you just say it and move on.

Because you all keep rejecting this most basic element of this

You didn't even give needling a year, so how does that comparison make sense? Idiot.

Hair doesn't take a full year to grow to a length easily detected by the naked eye. Idiot.

If you did the rolling for 3 months, and then 5 months later there's nothing, it means that there was no new hair created at any point in that time. If there was, it would be visible by now.

This is something supported by both anecdotes and the actual dermarolling studies.

This is at the end of 3 months.

Yet you guys are convinced that if after 8 months one isn't seeing results, that's because they actually just needed to keep rolling for like 4 months?

He is, but what's the point of calling him out?
Is an idiot capable of realising he's an idiot?
No!
Just ignore him.

What is wrong with you, you psychopath? You just follow me around to sh*t on anything I say. Remember how you always used to be a Follica hater and now you're here, sucking off everyone on the dermarolling train? You need a therapist.

 

[hairloss_user]

You're such a f*****g idiot. Not everyone will get the same type of results like in the studies. And the hair you get from needling at first is vellus hair, which is very weak hair. You may very well need to keep needling to stimulate the hair growth as it promotes blood circulation to the scalp.

 

[tomJ]

I'm still waiting for someone to come forward that strictly does needling with success WITHOUT minoxidil or finasteride.

 

[Kagaho]

Do you think applying minoxidil right after has accelerated results?

How much minoxidil do you apply?

@MinervaCGI

Didnt read properly your post, sorry.

Edit: I dont think applying right after has a significant impact. If you decide to wait 24 hs its gonna work the same.

 

[tomJ]

Definitely, without minoxidil im sure results wouldnt be the same.
I apply 4 ml per day

Of course they wont be the same without minoxidil. But will it help at all?? Yes I know one or two people on here point to a study or two but I have yet to see pics or even here from anyone that has had success without the use of minoxidil or finasteride while rolling.

 

[layabout]

ThatGuy is literally a Stormfronter. Why is anyone responding to him seriously?

 

[Kagaho]

You're such a f*****g idiot. Not everyone will get the same type of results like in the studies. And the hair you get from needling at first is vellus hair, which is very weak hair. You may very well need to keep needling to stimulate the hair growth as it promotes blood circulation to the scalp.

Ignore that guy. He is not capable to grasp even the basics of biology, the only explanation why he is so convinced that wounding works like a drug compound in the sense that reach a plateau effect as early as minoxidil alone.

He is clueless about this one. But once Follica is out and offering nearly lifelong needling session with minoxidil and other stuff he will join the train.

 

[Kagaho]

Of course they wont be the same without minoxidil. But will it help at all?? Yes I know one or two people on here point to a study or two but I have yet to see pics or even here from anyone that has had success without the use of minoxidil or finasteride while rolling.

At least one study suggest it might, the chinese one from 2017. It was comparable to minoxidil alone.

 

[Bill_Russo]

I'm still waiting for someone to come forward that strictly does needling with success WITHOUT minoxidil or finasteride.

@2young2retire
@Kitedude
EDIT: Well, he added Finasteride, but @MyThinningConfidence had success without Minoxidil before he started taking it.