American Health care reform protests

[ali777]

First of all, let me thank you for proving my point!!!

The public doesn't regularly cite immigration as their main (Government-influenced) concern because of "a few isolated stories about immigrants", the majority has been against large-scale, transformational immigration since it began in the late fifties but its views have been repeatedly ignored - both by Govt. and its left-leaning propaganda division, the BBC.

FACT: There are more Brits living abroad than there are foreigners living in the UK.

In the game of globalisation, Britain is a net exporter of culture and not an importer. You don't have the right to complain, it's your own creation.

Oddly the indigenous British don't seem thrilled about having their land become inexorably multi-cultural. The fact that 24% of babies born in 2008 were to mothers who themselves were born overseas (55% in London), doesn't make me think "ooh, how wonderfully open we are as a country". It makes me think "ooh, not long until non-indigenous births out-strip indigenous ones". Then the English will be well on their way to becoming just another minority in their own land.

That's because most of the foreigners in the UK are working age, which also happens to be the fertile times of a woman. It doesn't necessarily mean they settle in the UK for a long time. The UK benefits from them, in a sense that they pay taxes and then fukc off.

Are you fukcing kidding me? Try finding a debate/interview on the BBC about immigration where someone from the Left doesn't mention it. Personally I despise the idea of developed nations luring such professionals from countries with far thinner medical coverage than they themselves have, and besides, aren't we now training too many doctors for our own purposes?

What's the last time you heard someone mention the number of foreign doctors in the NHS?

It is true that after a long period of neglect, suddenly there are too many doctors graduating in the UK.

Basically, European right wing isn't about capitalism but about protecting our culture and resources from the foreigners. In reality, what those right wing people conveniently ignore to tell you is the amount of resources we leach from the developing world.

What do you mean by 'resources'? People? Is this the point where you tell me that the majority of new arrivals are highly skilled AND needed to fill skill-based gaps in the UK economy?

1. Culture: doesn't need explaining. You are pro-diversity, blah blah blah, but you want to protect your British values, whatever they are???
2. Resources: The way EU works isn't that different than the US. We all know the US went to war for petrol, likewise the EU will do anything to protect its trade routes, income, etc. Most of the food on your table is imported and only God knows the amount of modern slavery involved in its production. We import goods we need cheaply but don't allow the third world to import goods that we can produce ourselves. That's how we protect our own businesses and people.
3. Skills: I don't care if the new arrivals are highly skilled or not.

 

[HughJass]

If you or anyone else can point to where I blamed immigrants for the UK's social ills I will award a life-changing prize.

Yeah, but you're insinuating that the influx of immigrants is creating some kind of social problem

 

[Slartibartfast]

First of all, let me thank you for proving my point!!!

I wasn't aware you'd made one.

FACT: There are more Brits living abroad than there are foreigners living in the UK.

Of course the Govt. doesn't have the faintest idea how many people are actually in this country, but well done for repeating an entirely meaningless statistic. Those pesky legions of retired Brits buying homes in sunnier countries and then using life savings/pensions earned in Britain to support themselves simply MUST be stopped. Them and the Brits who qualify through stringent worker programmes in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA.

In the game of globalisation, Britain is a net exporter of culture and not an importer. You don't have the right to complain, it's your own creation.

I can complain about anything I damn well choose to, if I don't believe high levels of net migration are in my country's interest I will point it out as often as I like. Is that okay with you?

Oddly the indigenous British don't seem thrilled about having their land become inexorably multi-cultural. The fact that 24% of babies born in 2008 were to mothers who themselves were born overseas (55% in London), doesn't make me think "ooh, how wonderfully open we are as a country". It makes me think "ooh, not long until non-indigenous births out-strip indigenous ones". Then the English will be well on their way to becoming just another minority in their own land.

That's because most of the foreigners in the UK are working age, which also happens to be the fertile times of a woman. It doesn't necessarily mean they settle in the UK for a long time. The UK benefits from them, in a sense that they pay taxes and then fukc off.

There is ZERO evidence to support this fanciful notion that a large proportion of (non-tourist) migrants leave the UK after a short stay. And even the Govt's own figures show that migrants who settle have only an incredibly small net financial benefit to the UK.

Are you fukcing kidding me? Try finding a debate/interview on the BBC about immigration where someone from the Left doesn't mention it. Personally I despise the idea of developed nations luring such professionals from countries with far thinner medical coverage than they themselves have, and besides, aren't we now training too many doctors for our own purposes?

What's the last time you heard someone mention the number of foreign doctors in the NHS?

That would be the last time I saw an immigration segment (with politicians in the studio) on Newsnight or Question Time. Terribly sorry I can't give you an actual date.

It is true that after a long period of neglect, suddenly there are too many doctors graduating in the UK.

So evidently we can train our own popualtion without leaching skilled individuals from other countries. Marvelous.

1. Culture: doesn't need explaining. You are pro-diversity, blah blah blah, but you want to protect your British values, whatever they are???
2. Resources: The way EU works isn't that different than the US. We all know the US went to war for petrol, likewise the EU will do anything to protect its trade routes, income, etc. Most of the food on your table is imported and only God knows the amount of modern slavery involved in its production. We import goods we need cheaply but don't allow the third world to import goods that we can produce ourselves. That's how we protect our own businesses and people.
3. Skills: I don't care if the new arrivals are highly skilled or not.

1. Where did I say I was pro diversity? Pretty sure I said I was concerned that the UK is being split down ethnic/cultural lines.
2. What the f*** does that have to do with immigration into the UK? You've just launched into a massive tangent.
3. Guess what, I don't give a monkeys whether or not you care. If you think this country needs more low-skilled workers you are clearly detached from reality.

 

[oni]

"Immigrants" are not the problem (Just a symptom) it is more to do with the social engineering of the left and the shock doctrine of the right before them.

FACT: There are more Brits living abroad than there are foreigners living in the UK.

And I dare say that a lot of them left because this little island is changing too quick and getting a little over crowded.

Yeah, but you're insinuating that the influx of immigrants is creating some kind of social problem.

The UK needs low paid jobs but not too low that a UK family cannot live on it!

The governments of the last 20+ years have caused this problem. We have a growing underclass which was formed from the working class. These people need simple jobs and not young immigrants living 10up in a converted 3 bedroom house paying for a single room doing them!

I am sorry to say we are not all equal we need to get back the manufacturing industries and subsidize them if we have to! Just to give these people something to do and if that means leaving Europe bloody great!

 

[Slartibartfast]

If you or anyone else can point to where I blamed immigrants for the UK's social ills I will award a life-changing prize.

Yeah, but you're insinuating that the influx of immigrants is creating some kind of social problem

You were quite clearly referring to specific social issues such as crime whilst I'm in more of a "this country is increasingly lacking the sort of cultural unity that is needed to hold it together" mood.

But I take it from your response that you can't point to where I blamed immigrants for the UK's social ills. Only what you chose to infer. Correct?

 

[Slartibartfast]

oni, I suspect we are both wasting our breath. At least as far as ali goes.

Any immigration is fine by him, skill level unimportant, and because we're apparently behind globalisation we don't have the right to complain.

 

[oni]

oni, I suspect we are both wasting our breath. At least as far as ali goes.

Any immigration is fine by him, skill level unimportant, and because we're apparently behind globalisation we don't have the right to complain.

Yes I know and statistics don't lie......................... :whistle: and all that.

Yeah, we cannot complain if other people do things in our name but we have to pay for it lol! :whistle:

 

[Bryan]

I continue to be amazed by what strong opinions so many lay people have about global warming. To me, it seems so obvious that it's a profoundly technical issue requiring the processing of vast amounts of measured data, along with some really sophisticated computer modeling.

Measured data isn't all in agreement and sophisticated doesn't guarantee accurate.

Oh yes, I'm perfectly aware of that. Which only reinforces the point I made above: if even the scientific experts can't completely agree on the issue of global warming, what business do cab drivers, grocery store workers, and plumbers have, in expressing their completely uninformed and worthless opinions?

 

[oni]

I continue to be amazed by what strong opinions so many lay people have about global warming. To me, it seems so obvious that it's a profoundly technical issue requiring the processing of vast amounts of measured data, along with some really sophisticated computer modeling.

Measured data isn't all in agreement and sophisticated doesn't guarantee accurate.

Oh yes, I'm perfectly aware of that. Which only reinforces the point I made above: if even the scientific experts can't completely agree on the issue of global warming, what business do cab drivers, grocery store workers, and plumbers have, in expressing their completely uninformed and worthless opinions?

Then stop giving your opinion Bryan! you cab driver!

 

[HughJass]

You were quite clearly referring to specific social issues such as crime whilst I'm in more of a "this country is increasingly lacking the sort of cultural unity that is needed to hold it together" mood.

Well, what else could you possibly mean?

If this cultural unity doesn't have some reference to the rule of law and keeping civil order then why would it matter if it falls apart or not?

 

[HughJass]

And I dare say that a lot of them left because this little island is changing too quick and getting a little over crowded.

don't discount the lure of Australian poontang!

 

[oni]

And I dare say that a lot of them left because this little island is changing too quick and getting a little over crowded.

don't discount the lure of Australian poontang!

I always ask for discount..........................on girls in their 20's that look more like late 30's. :whistle:

Sorry but most of the Australian girls I know have crows feet and the rest, at 25+ too much Sun is not good for the skin.................................or do you keep yours in an under ground bunker Aussie?

 

[ali777]

I'm in more of a "this country is increasingly lacking the sort of cultural unity that is needed to hold it together" mood.

Bryan asked what the right wing talks about and I said immigration is probably the biggest issue right now.

Do I care about Britain and the British culture? Despite being happily integrated within the British culture, I actually don't care much about Britain. In a way, I do prove your point that Britain lacks unity. Today I had a few pints, curry, and I watched the CL game in a pub... Does that count towards your cultural unity?

As an "independent" observer, I can tell you what some of your problems are....

The UK needs low paid jobs but not too low that a UK family cannot live on it!

The governments of the last 20+ years have caused this problem. We have a growing underclass which was formed from the working class. These people need simple jobs and not young immigrants living 10up in a converted 3 bedroom house paying for a single room doing them!

That's where your problem lies. You are too comfortable for your own good.

There are millions of low paid jobs in the UK, my local shop had a job advertisement on the door today. You'd think they could find someone pretty easily since we are in the midst of an economic crisis and the unemployment rate is high. But noooo, the minimum wage is too low. Millions of Brits are happy to sit at home and live off the benefits than work for the minimum wage.

IMO, your benefits systems needs changing. At the moment, living off the benefits is more comfortable than working for the minimum wage. According to a BBC article published today, the cut-off point is at about £15k (my personal guess would have been 12-13k). Financially, it's more beneficiary to be on the benefits than to work for less than £15k. There is something seriously wrong here.

I don't think an 18yo kid should be getting benefits until he pays at least two years of taxes, that's how it works in some European countries. That forces the lazy kids to go out and get jobs. Then, there should be a time limit on the benefits, ie after 6-12 months no more free ride...

If you call someone on £12k+ underclass, I would like to know what your definition of rich is.

I am sorry to say we are not all equal we need to get back the manufacturing industries and subsidize them if we have to! Just to give these people something to do and if that means leaving Europe bloody great!

Try it and go bankrupt... I'm an engineer, I know what I'm talking about. The days of manufacturing in the UK are long gone. Not only from financial point of view, but pollution, energy resources, etc manufacturing doesn't benefit the country as much as you think.

UK is one of the biggest "services" exporter in the world. While you have such a "clean" income why do you want to bring back the days of the industrial revolution?

 

[oni]

Try it and go bankrupt... I'm an engineer, I know what I'm talking about. The days of manufacturing in the UK are long gone. Not only from financial point of view, but pollution, energy resources, etc manufacturing doesn't benefit the country as much as you think.

UK is one of the biggest "services" exporter in the world. While you have such a "clean" income why do you want to bring back the days of the industrial revolution?

I think you misunderstand the point I was trying to make. It is more about giving people who are not capable of working in the "service" industry a job to do.......................................

 

[HughJass]

Sorry but most of the Australian girls I know have crows feet and the rest, at 25+ too much Sun is not good for the skin.................................or do you keep yours in an under ground bunker Aussie?

this girls, or my skin?


:whistle:

 

[oni]

Sorry but most of the Australian girls I know have crows feet and the rest, at 25+ too much Sun is not good for the skin.................................or do you keep yours in an under ground bunker Aussie?

this girls, or my skin?


:whistle:

Both................................ :whistle:

 

[Slartibartfast]

You were quite clearly referring to specific social issues such as crime whilst I'm in more of a "this country is increasingly lacking the sort of cultural unity that is needed to hold it together" mood.

Well, what else could you possibly mean?

In its most basic sense I mean that people who choose England as a permanent base actually giving a crap about the country, its heritage, traditions, etc. and having some desire to interact with English society, rather than seeing it as simply a convenient place in which to improve their financial well-being.

If this cultural unity doesn't have some reference to the rule of law and keeping civil order then why would it matter if it falls apart or not?

Because I have this perverse dislike of the country being chopped up along ethnic lines. Call me old fashioned.

If I believed there was a migrant-led crime wave blighting us I would have no problem saying so. Nice and clearly, without recourse to obfuscation. Much like this: I'm concerned about the effect of high net-immigration on housing, wages in low-skilled jobs, and the ability of public services to cope with the extra demand. Only with the word 'crime' included.

 

[Slartibartfast]

ali, apropos your comments on the UK's welfare system/willingness of one section of society to eschew hard work whenever possible: I'm in complete agreement. This is what happens when for 40 years you have your nation's social agenda set by lunatic left-wingers, and never properly opposed by the centre-right.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Measured data isn't all in agreement and sophisticated doesn't guarantee accurate.

Oh yes, I'm perfectly aware of that. Which only reinforces the point I made above: if even the scientific experts can't completely agree on the issue of global warming, what business do cab drivers, grocery store workers, and plumbers have, in expressing their completely uninformed and worthless opinions?

As much business as the most highly-respected experts, you just don't put as much store in their opinions.

But if the experts can't completely agree, and on occasion data is selectively used to further one side's case, how on earth did you come to pick a side? Or are you not in tow with the IPCC's merchants of doom?

 

[Bryan]

As much business as the most highly-respected experts, you just don't put as much store in their opinions.

You can go ahead and put as much store as you want in their opinions. Personally, I won't be doing that at all.

But if the experts can't completely agree, and on occasion data is selectively used to further one side's case, how on earth did you come to pick a side?

Like I said before, I go along with what the consensus of opinion is -- or at least, what it appears to be. If that apparent consensus changes sometime in the future, so will my view.