An Extremely Interesting And Well Researched Thread About Hair Loss

[jamesbooker1975]

I go 0.1% on Tretinoin having built resistance gradually. On the nizoral side I get the ointment on top of the shampoo. I don't have 30 minutes to spare with shampoo on my head and the cream can stay as long as I want.

Problem is, that,ketoconazole cream, use it for long periods of time, leaving several hours, might go systemic. And ketoconzole is not something you want it systemic.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

@jamesbooker1975 I assume that you are a nw1 with current treatment?

No, Norwood 2-3 . You can regrowth hair in the temple, in the dead zone.

 

[LowHairLine]

Too much tretinoin causes hair loss. The reason for using is to increase minoxidil absorption. It provides little benefit on its own, and isn't very useful if you're taking oral minoxidil. Also, Nizoral should not be used more than three times a week, and only needs to be applied for 5 minutes. Overuse will significantly increase the chances of developing a rash.

TRETINOIN HAIRLOSS
Any study confirming Tretinoin causes hairloss?
What dose is too much?

The study that @jamesbooker1975 provided (and you are probably aware of, given your expertise) suggested that "Tretinoin Enhances Minoxidil Response in Androgenetic Alopecia Patients by Up-Regulating Follicular Sulfotransferase Enzymes."

Do you believe this not to be true when saying it's only for absorption?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30974011

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-patients-by-up-regulating-follicular.122038/

NIZORAL BEYOND 5 MIN
Do you suggest not exceeding 5 min only due to rashes, or you believe that after that the benefit is minimal? Asking cause using it everyday for 20-30 min & no rashes, but everybody's skin is different of course.

Thank you.

 

[Nsas]

5 % minoxidil and 0.05 % tretinoin. You can go lower on tretinoin , like 0.01 % if you have too sencitive skin and use to have irritation

i have tretinoin 0.1% for something else. can i use it every other day to get an average daily dose of 0.05%? or how do i turn tretinoin 0.1% to 0.05%? also is it okay to use tretinoin daily and microneedle every two weeks?

 

[baba_yaga]

And that is all , even if you cut your balls, you will no have more regrowth or stop the hair loss more than with the combo I mention.

lol at this "pharmacyst"

 

[jamesbooker1975]

TRETINOIN HAIRLOSS
Any study confirming Tretinoin causes hairloss?
What dose is too much?

The study that @jamesbooker1975 provided (and you are probably aware of, given your expertise) suggested that "Tretinoin Enhances Minoxidil Response in Androgenetic Alopecia Patients by Up-Regulating Follicular Sulfotransferase Enzymes."

Do you believe this not to be true when saying it's only for absorption?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30974011

https://www.hairlosstalk.com/intera...-patients-by-up-regulating-follicular.122038/

NIZORAL BEYOND 5 MIN
Do you suggest not exceeding 5 min only due to rashes, or you believe that after that the benefit is minimal? Asking cause using it everyday for 20-30 min & no rashes, but everybody's skin is different of course.

Thank you.

Pegasus is extremly wrong.
First at all, Isotretinoin inhibit 5-alpha reductase, so it is more probably that tretinoin do it to. Anyway, it don't increase

i have tretinoin 0.1% for something else. can i use it every other day to get an average daily dose of 0.05%? or how do i turn tretinoin 0.1% to 0.05%? also is it okay to use tretinoin daily and microneedle every two weeks?

Well, you will need to disolve it with a solvent . Kind of complicate.

lol at this "pharmacyst"

Why don't you share your "lol " ?
Why you don't explain it ? in a cream, you have certains compounds besides tretinoin, plus you have a density of the cream. Is not like get Propylene glycol and goes to a certain volumen . This is why, to compound a lotion, we part from pure tretinoin, not from a cream, cause it have this problems.
If I take the explain on how to do it, you will do it ? Not, don't you ? but you say " lol " .

See, problem is, there are to many idiots like you in life, that " lol " to much . Idiots like you, that don't know actually how to do anything in life, besides " lol " others.

 

[jamesbooker1975]

lol at this "pharmacyst"

You might want to share a norwood 7 going to norwood 0 ? for example , a transgender person ? lol .

 

[baba_yaga]

You might want to share a norwood 7 going to norwood 0 ? for example , a transgender person ? lol .

here you go

you said you are NW2-3 and your regimen is stronger than suppressing all male androgens (aka cutting the balls off), so tell me, are you now a NW0-1?

 

[jamesbooker1975]

That may play some some role, but it's pointless if you're using oral minoxidil. Oral minoxidil doesn't require sulfotransferase in the scalp. If you're not on it, and your SULT1A1 gene is inactive then small doses might be able to make you a responder to topical minoxidil. Better to just switch to oral minoxidil.


NIZORAL BEYOND 5 MIN
Do you suggest not exceeding 5 min only due to rashes, or you believe that after that the benefit is minimal? Asking cause using it everyday for 20-30 min & no rashes, but everybody's skin is different of course.

Thank you.

I think you can increase the benefit by leaving it on longer, but it could hurt. I never had any kind of rash or hives in my entire life, never even acne. Then I used Nizoral daily, leaving it on four an hour, for months, and developed a bad rash that still flares up sometimes. Just be careful with it, and watch for any sign of skin changes.[/QUOTE]

"That may play some some role, but it's pointless if you're using oral minoxidil. Oral minoxidil doesn't require sulfotransferase in the scalp. If you're not on it, and your SULT1A1 gene is inactive then small doses might be able to make you a responder to topical minoxidil. Better to just switch to oral minoxidil."

Besides it is Risky to use oral minoxidil, why you say that sulfotransferase is not require on the scalp ? how you know that if you don't have it on the scalp in certain % you will have it on the rest of the body !? Show any study, any at all that prove it .
In more than 40 years, there is not a single study showing that oral minoxidil is more effective than topical. Actually, it is not .

And, lets asume (which is not right ) that you get more conversion of minoxidil to minoxidil sulphate if you use oral. You will use it oral instead of use it with tretinoin ?! There is not chance, not a single one, that oral minoxidil will not give you side effects at long term. In fact, oral minoxidil is discontinued in most countries cause the amount of side effects compare to any other antihypertensive med .

Oral minoxidl is a none sense, that was already in vogue during earlies 80s and early 2000s


About ketoconazole, it is use it OFFLABEL, meaning , it have none sense on read the instructions and use it like you was using for dandruff .

here you go

you said you are NW2-3 and your regimen is stronger than suppressing all male androgens (aka cutting the balls off), so tell me, are you now a NW0-1?

Show me an study where a norwood 7 go to a nowrood 0 by removing all the androgens , there are tragenders , please show me .

 

[jamesbooker1975]

You don't have to be very bright to be a pharmacist lol Dude is obsessed with minoxidil and tretinoin. The one study showing benefit from tretinion+minoxidil put it at the same efficacy as twice daily minoxidil, so it's hardly a game changer.

You don't have to be very bright to be a pharmacist lol Dude is obsessed with minoxidil and tretinoin. The one study showing benefit from tretinion+minoxidil put it at the same efficacy as twice daily minoxidil, so it's hardly a game changer.

You dont even know what a pharmacy knows . Plus , minoxidil x 10 times is not the same , cause you arw not concerting it to minoxidil sulphate ! people are showing you one increadible well done , in vivo , in human new study and you dont accept it and quote on single study from the esrly 90s !!!! lol .
Yes , you are really smart , oral minoxidil is the answer , searcher have the deug since early 80s , and they just found it , lol .

 

[jamesbooker1975]

T

here you go

you said you are NW2-3 and your regimen is stronger than suppressing all male androgens (aka cutting the balls off), so tell me, are you now a NW0-1?

That is not a norwood 7 . Even so , he can have that kind of results , he just lost hat hair , without the insane amount of side effects he will have .

 

[jamesbooker1975]

I'm not even going to bother with this. I'm too tired.

Yep,for idiots think is a reall bored activity .

 

[jamesbooker1975]

i have tretinoin 0.1% for something else. can i use it every other day to get an average daily dose of 0.05%? or how do i turn tretinoin 0.1% to 0.05%? also is it okay to use tretinoin daily and microneedle every two weeks?

You can buy a cream base , like dermovate . Do this :
0,1 . 100 grams = 0, 025 . x

Then x will be 400 grams and that will be the final value . So you use 100 grams that contain that tretinoin 0.1 grams of tretinoin and then you ad 300 grams of cream/ointment ( without any active ingredient ) . That will give you a 0,025 :/: tretinoin .

 

[baba_yaga]

T

That is not a norwood 7 . Even so , he can have that kind of results , he just lost hat hair , without the insane amount of side effects he will have .

Dude, he was a NW5 and became a NW2 or better. No amount of massages, minoxidil, topical crap, posture and cranofacial sh*t will ever give you such insane regrowth. He definitely got sides, but that should be expected. What should not be expected is any form of insane regrowth from the regimen you're boasting around with.

 

[BetaBoy]

Yes avodart for prostate enlargement is subscribed a lot but not for hairloss. If I recall correctly, even FDA didn't approve duta for hairloss in America.

Avodart is OTC in some countries in Europe and in the UK a lot of pharmacies will prescribe it for hairloss.

 

[Throwaway94]

Avodart is OTC in some countries in Europe and in the UK a lot of pharmacies will prescribe it for hairloss.

Pharmacies don't prescribe anything at all

 

[Throwaway94]

So you're very long on minoxidil then? Did you notice any side effects, skin problems, etc? Sexual sides?

Sexual sides on minoxidil, come on now

 

[Throwaway94]

I know it's very rare but it can still happen though.

Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4039155/


Minoxidil Acts as an Antiandrogen: A Study of 5?-reductase Type 2 Gene Expression in a Human Keratinocyte Cell Line

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...cyte_Cell_Line

Yes when they take some human-like cells or cancer cells in a petri dish and drown them in minoxidil I'm sure it would have all sorts of effects. But in practical application it's absurd to think minoxidil could give sexual side effects at any concentration that wouldn't blow up an elephant's heart first.

 

[Throwaway94]

You do know there are people who experienced fina like side effects from minoxidil right? And if you understand basic science you know studies aren't worthless because they're in vitro.

I absolutely agree with you, in vitro studies are a necessity as a starting point. But you can see they're literally pouring minoxidil solutions of varying concentration directly on to the cells which doesn't relate at all to the systemic exposure one might have from topical or oral minoxidil. Also for every study claiming antiandrogenic properties, there are more that couldn't rule out the null hypothesis.

People claiming sexual side effects from minoxidil are really clutching at straws, you won't find anyone outside of those hypochondriac pfs forums.

 

[TomRiddle]

I absolutely agree with you, in vitro studies are a necessity as a starting point. But you can see they're literally pouring minoxidil solutions of varying concentration directly on to the cells which doesn't relate at all to the systemic exposure one might have from topical or oral minoxidil. Also for every study claiming antiandrogenic properties, there are more that couldn't rule out the null hypothesis.

People claiming sexual side effects from minoxidil are really clutching at straws, you won't find anyone outside of those hypochondriac pfs forums.

The fact that you don't believe in it or that science does not understand it's mechanism yet does not make all of them hypochondriacs you know that right? It's not like you know them or something, it's just your opinion and nothing is gonna change that, the truth could be totally different from the general knowledge around it, it only takes more time for it to be discovered...