Androgenetic Alopecia vs. AA

[moskva]

PGD2 suppression is still only one aspect of Androgenetic Alopecia. May not do anything for us. Given that DHT is only one of many culprits in Androgenetic Alopecia and balding continues while blocking it completely, it only proves that there's much more to Androgenetic Alopecia than a single pathway. So... PGD2 may exhibit similar problems. Personally, I don't think addressing PGD2 is going to cut it. Probably some reversal and a more guaranteed halt to hair loss, but not a complete solution like arthritis drugs for AA. Something much bigger than PGD2 and DHT imo needs to be addressed... if not, then all pathways simultaneously.

Hell, I got an idea(a little bit off topic) that although AA & Androgenetic Alopecia have huge difference in mechanism, JAK suppressor like ruxolitinib & tofacitinib can also do some help to male pattern baldness. From what i understand, the pgd2-gpr44 reaction, is actually a "triggering" of th2 cell, like in atopic dermatitis and asthma etc. We can naturally think that if we kick away the th2 **** by any means(the same logic stands in treatments of many other immune diseases including asthma), things should get better. JAK pathway is crucial in most th cells, and I once read that tofacitinib as a JAK3 suppressor may have higher effect on th2. Why the heck such strong immune inhibitors can't do anything on male pattern baldness?

 

[Armando Jose]

Causal mechanism is the main difference-IMO.

In AA, its autoimmune reaction. Th2 cell-derived cytokines (lymphocytes) are activating mast cells (inflammation). In Androgenetic Alopecia, mast cells become immunoreactive via the androgene receptors.

And if this is right, im worried, Ruxolitinib won't work for Androgenetic Alopecia. Ruxolitinib disables cytokines receptors, It has nothing to do with Androgenetic Alopecia inflammation mechanism.

And It is possible Androgenetic Alopecia and autoimmune problems but iy is not the first event....., later if so. And it seem that in AA don't disturb the stem cells renovation mechanism, there is no minuaturization. AA also have its pattern different with neoplasic meds .... OTOH there is differences berween scalp and body hair. It so complicated

 

[Mach]

Instead of blocking which is always dangerous, it would be best to find a way to make the hair follicle much stronger to androgens. How, I have no clue, but a topical is ideal.

I agree. PRP mixed with another growth injection could do it? Yes I know just PRP has controversy.

Do AA have Androgenetic Alopecia?

 

[I.D WALKER]

What little I understand about this "disease" is that the general populace percentage of diagnosed patients with AA is @ 2%. From this uncited approximation it's moderately reasonable to deduce that AA and Androgenetic Alopecia occurs together in some individuals. What percentage, 0.03 % (I am guessing).

I agree. PRP mixed with another growth injection could do it? Yes I know just PRP has controversy.

Do AA have Androgenetic Alopecia?

 

[Mach]

would be my luck if I had AA and got cured but had male pattern baldness.

 

[maher]

Yes... that would suck- after spending thousands of $ to regrow NW6 pattern

 

[I.D WALKER]

You said it. It reminds me of the macabre (and outdated) story about the guy who get's a call from his doctor who proceeds to tell him, "Hey listen Jack, you doing fine? Yeah? Good good good. Well son, now I've got some very good news and a bit of bad news to tell you about your lab report, "Okay Doctor," Jack quietly says, "No,no Doctor I'm sitting down". Doctor goes on to share with great enthusiasm in his voice, " Well, well my dear boy the good news is you've got TWO WEEKS to live!" (PAUSE) "TWOO WEEEKS TO LIVE!" Our dear boy Jack exclaims,"That's the good news?" "Well HA HA,"(Doctor chuckles) I was just about to finish, but that's okay, I'll make this brief. The bad news IS son...' that my secretary forgot to tell me 2 weeks ago.

 

[Python]

Yes... that would suck- after spending thousands of $ to regrow NW6 pattern

OMG dude, why do people hate you? You have like the worse reputation here ever haha, it's actually kinda funny. You have like 7 red bars.

 

[hellouser]

Hell, I got an idea(a little bit off topic) that although AA & Androgenetic Alopecia have huge difference in mechanism, JAK suppressor like ruxolitinib & tofacitinib can also do some help to male pattern baldness. From what i understand, the pgd2-gpr44 reaction, is actually a "triggering" of th2 cell, like in atopic dermatitis and asthma etc. We can naturally think that if we kick away the th2 **** by any means(the same logic stands in treatments of many other immune diseases including asthma), things should get better. JAK pathway is crucial in most th cells, and I once read that tofacitinib as a JAK3 suppressor may have higher effect on th2. Why the heck such strong immune inhibitors can't do anything on male pattern baldness?

Excellent point. It does beg the question of why the fvck Tofacitinib was never tried for androgenetic alopecia.

Can you post the sources of your findings? I've got a feeling tofacitinib has other benefits rather than simply blocking t cells and working 'only' for alopecia areata.

 

[maher]

OMG dude, why do people hate you? You have like the worse reputation here ever haha, it's actually kinda funny. You have like 7 red bars.

..you kidding? guys here love me 97% of bad rep. is from Fred.

 

[I.D WALKER]

As well as treatment for R.A. Pzizer is currently sponsoring a study also using Tofacitinib 10mgs. ointment for plaque psoriasis(another suspected auto-immune disease). As a topical it's safety thus far is very good.

- - - Updated - - -

Correction. The study is administering two dose strength Tofa.(20mg., and 10 mg.). Obviously the impact this will achieve for hair loss is not the research objective, but serendipity has a knack for showing up in strange places. I'll leave it at that.

 

[EvilLocks]

..you kidding? guys here love me 97% of bad rep. is from Fred.

HAHA!

 

[I.D WALKER]

http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01831466

As well as treatment for R.A. Pzizer is currently sponsoring a study also using Tofacitinib 10mgs. ointment for plaque psoriasis(another suspected auto-immune disease). As a topical it's safety thus far is very good.

- - - Updated - - -

Correction. The study is administering two dose strength Tofa.(20mg., and 10 mg.). Obviously the impact this will achieve for hair loss is not the research objective, but serendipity has a knack for showing up in strange places. I'll leave it at that.

 

[hellouser]

As well as treatment for R.A. Pzizer is currently sponsoring a study also using Tofacitinib 10mgs. ointment for plaque psoriasis(another suspected auto-immune disease). As a topical it's safety thus far is very good.

- - - Updated - - -

Correction. The study is administering two dose strength Tofa.(20mg., and 10 mg.). Obviously the impact this will achieve for hair loss is not the research objective, but serendipity has a knack for showing up in strange places. I'll leave it at that.

Do you have a link to the study?

http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01831466

THANKS!

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps it'd be a good idea to reach out to all the doctors that have conducted the topical trials and see if they have any input on Tofacitinib working on Androgenetic Alopecia?

 

[moskva]

Excellent point. It does beg the question of why the fvck Tofacitinib was never tried for androgenetic alopecia.

Can you post the sources of your findings? I've got a feeling tofacitinib has other benefits rather than simply blocking t cells and working 'only' for alopecia areata.

There are whole lot of information about gpr44(crth2,dp2) and its role in allergic diseases, I have to admit I just got some general understandings on this issue, but if you want some detailed academic explanation, you can easily find many papers like these: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17965752/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16272307 it's like a recent hot topic in medical science.
You can find th2, mast cell, eosinophilis etc in the pathogenesis of many allergic diseases, and th2 is basically playing a pivotal role in all cases.

About jak & th2:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24365136
Note the 3rd paragraph in section "targeting janus kinases in autoimmune diseases an transplant rejection". Basically tofacitinib can block the action of both th cell involved in male pattern baldness and th cells involved in AA. That's why I think it can be a common weapon to deal with both diseases.
So far I don't really find much about other benefits. but imo simply killing the loss by a direct and thorough way would be a big step forward.

 

[hellouser]

There are whole lot of information about gpr44(crth2,dp2) and its role in allergic diseases, I have to admit I just got some general understandings on this issue, but if you want some detailed academic explanation, you can easily find many papers like these: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17965752/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16272307 it's like a recent hot topic in medical science.
You can find th2, mast cell, eosinophilis etc in the pathogenesis of many allergic diseases, and th2 is basically playing a pivotal role in all cases.

About jak & th2:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24365136
Note the 3rd paragraph in section "targeting janus kinases in autoimmune diseases an transplant rejection". Basically tofacitinib can block the action of both th cell involved in male pattern baldness and th cells involved in AA. That's why I think it can be a common weapon to deal with both diseases.
So far I don't really find much about other benefits. but imo simply killing the loss by a direct and thorough way would be a big step forward.

Someone with Androgenetic Alopecia really needs to get on Tofacitinib, FAST. What would it take for a doctor take have just ONE test patient?

 

[I.D WALKER]

I suppose it's as good as any place to start. When the published resources on a specific treatment are exhausted a natural recourse might be to query the source? That's assuming those doctors are willing to indulge us /anyone with an "interview of sorts".

Do you have a link to the study?



THANKS!

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps it'd be a good idea to reach out to all the doctors that have conducted the topical trials and see if they have any input on Tofacitinib working on Androgenetic Alopecia?

 

[maher]

Someone with Androgenetic Alopecia really needs to get on Tofacitinib, FAST. What would it take for a doctor take have just ONE test patient?

It would take at least 5 months and 10000$. Yes, why dont they try on male pattern baldness patient? Or maybe they know something we dont know.

I know for sure none of these drugs were tryed for male pattern baldness.

OK, i've just read on wiki: "Tofacitinib was not approved by the European regulatory agencies because of concerns over efficacy and safety"

"A boxed warning that goes along with this approval warns patients that they are at higher risk of opportunistic infections, tuberculosis, cancers and lymphoma"

Would you take a risk??:wow:

 

[hellouser]

It would take at least 5 months and 10000$. Yes, why dont they try on male pattern baldness patient? Or maybe they know something we dont know.

I know for sure none of these drugs were tryed for male pattern baldness.

OK, i've just read on wiki: "Tofacitinib was not approved by the European regulatory agencies because of concerns over efficacy and safety"

"A boxed warning that goes along with this approval warns patients that they are at higher risk of opportunistic infections, tuberculosis, cancers and lymphoma"

Would you take a risk??:wow:

The 10,000 cost is the consumer cost. It doesn't actually cost that much to produce the stuff, I read somewhere that Pfizer got 5,000 people in their clinical trials so the R&D costs were a TON so the price NOW is to make up for it as well as cover costs for any potential lawsuits (side effects).

Regardless, they tried it on that Kyle Rhodes guy with Psoriasis so someone could easily try it for androgenetic alopecia. We should not be waiting 2 years after it was tried for alopecia areata, thats BULLSH*T.

 

[Python]

Isn't there an alternative generic form of Tofacitinib? Or some sort of derivative, we could try something like that at first.